Subwoofers make all big speakers obsolete?

[Trell]

Yes, of course

Big drums like Taiko, which I love and have heard very often - I would have many pictures of it - do not work at all in small and medium rooms. It's just too dynamic and loud.
It's better that you can turn down the volume on the hi-fi.

BTW another nice experience: Years ago we had a garden party in our yard, where we invited a show taiko artist. (Own picture)

View attachment 297591

I've had similar experience decades ago and is part of the reason why I essentially stopped going to non-classical concerts and night clubs: An all-over unpleasant experience.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

https://www.kvalsvoll.com/blog/2018/04/15/dypbass-del-2-dypbass-i-musikk-og-film/
(Norwegian text, use translate)

Article with spectrograms of various content, shows actual frequency range, and also explains why it is not always necessary to reproduce full-range. Thought this might be useful since there was some discourse around frequency range of different instruments.

 

[pablolie]

Also a good one (except separation seems exaggerated in the recording...)

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[Trell]

Also a good one (except separation seems exaggerated in the recording...)

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As bass goes, quite lame, to be honest, compared to the drum clip in post #432.

 

[CapMan]

Because here was often the talk of big drums with their low tones. One of my favorite recordings in the context of Taiko is this one by Yim Hok Man. However, I don't know how low these frequencies actually are on this recording on YouTube. I have the CD and it is also on Deezer-HiFi. Tone quality seems to be better on those.

CHINA Hok-Man Yim: Poems of Thunder - Percussion

Hok-man Yim - album - 2000 - 8 Songs

www.deezer.com

As a related point - the drum tracks created for Burn After Reading , Bourne movies etc were created by the same group of percussionists in London . It’s become a requested house style!

They get the very low pitch bass drum on those tracks by playing the drum incredibly quietly and using loads of gain. Striking the drum hard and loud just gives you the high pitch articulation / attack without the body.

 

[pablolie]

As bass goes, quite lame, to be honest, compared to the drum clip in post #432.

Guess your system doesn't provide enough of those deep bass undertones that every instrument has? :-D Kidding - that clip is clearly all about transients and is a great one to tell apart compressed from FLAC (and sub-bass is useless for that exercise).

 

[Trell]

Guess your system doesn't provide enough of those deep bass undertones that every instrument has? :-D Kidding - that clip is clearly all about transients and is a great one to tell apart compressed from FLAC (and sub-bass is useless for that exercise).

You mean that all the bass I'm missing is located in the dip at 38 Hz?

 

[Jon AA]

And indeed that is the big "if"...

Not really. Are you somehow under the impression that if one puts a sub into his system it's just going to randomly play 20 Hz sound that's not in the recording? I don't know where you'd get that idea, but it's not from reality.

 

[pablolie]

Not really. Are you somehow under the impression that if one puts a sub into his system it's just going to randomly play 20 Hz sound that's not in the recording? I don't know where you'd get that idea, but it's not from reality.

And I am not sure where you read that - most certainly not in my post. Anyhow this topic has run its c(o)urse.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Also a good one (except separation seems exaggerated in the recording...)

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Oneness

Jack DeJohnette - album - 1997 - 5 Songs

www.deezer.com

Thanks, nice percussion pieces! I listened to the album on Deezer HiFi and added it to my jazz favorites now.
Again, I had the impression that YouTube just doesn't have very good sound quality in comparison. (Sometimes it's good to have it though, for a quick preview).

 

[pablolie]

Thanks, nice percussion pieces! I listened to the album on Deezer HiFi and added it to my jazz favorites now.
Again, I had the impression that YouTube just doesn't have very good sound quality in comparison. (Sometimes it's good to have it though, for a quick preview).

Yes the Youtube versions are quite lossy but that doesn't mean one can't thoroughly enjoy the performance. Here's another favorite - all acoustic, amazing vocals, and an amazing percussion solo... get the CD, it is an awesome performance with a deserving recording. I was completely heartbroken when he died. He was even more amazing live. This is a favorite song, and a reference recording when I still bother to listen critically.

To me this is one of those showpieces to enjoy a lot of range, but something that can be easily totally ruined by over-amping the completely natural bass (and unfortunately I have listened to that on a 300k system with a close acquaintance).

 

[Andysu]

subs , lol a bose can be a sub but way too small and so easy to pick up it must be rubbish ? i let you all think hard on that one for a while

 

[EJ3]

As a related point - the drum tracks created for Burn After Reading , Bourne movies etc were created by the same group of percussionists in London . It’s become a requested house style!

They get the very low pitch bass drum on those tracks by playing the drum incredibly quietly and using loads of gain. Striking the drum hard and loud just gives you the high pitch articulation / attack without the body.

I was wondering how that was done. Thank you for the explanation. I like the result of their recording technique.

 

[droid2000]

>Subwoofers make all big speakers obsolete?​

Yes.

 

[EJ3]

>Subwoofers make all big speakers obsolete?​

Yes.

I think that YES: NO: MAYBE are all correct because 'IT DEPENDS'.

 

[droid2000]

>Subwoofers make all big speakers obsolete?​

Yes.

worst case you put the subwoofers below the speakers. boom! full range speakers again. crossovers aren't hard.

I think that YES: NO: MAYBE are all correct because 'IT DEPENDS'.

I still haven't seen a good case for full range speakers other than i'm too lazy or not competent enough to integrate subs.

 

[audiofooled]

IMHO, not at all for far field listening. You need mid bass and mid range. Sub can't cover it all if your main speakers are too small for the application.

 

[CapMan]

I was wondering how that was done. Thank you for the explanation. I like the result of their recording technique.

From All Music re Burn After Reading : The score is introduced by "Earth Zoom In," a striking percussion cue, signaling that drums will be a major factor throughout. Although the music is played by a symphony orchestra, drummers Paul Clarvis, Frank Ricotti, Gary Kettel, and Ralph Salmins are credited individually, which is appropriate.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Yes the Youtube versions are quite lossy but that doesn't mean one can't thoroughly enjoy the performance. Here's another favorite - all acoustic, amazing vocals, and an amazing percussion solo... get the CD, it is an awesome performance with a deserving recording. I was completely heartbroken when he died. He was even more amazing live. This is a favorite song, and a reference recording when I still bother to listen critically.

To me this is one of those showpieces to enjoy a lot of range, but something that can be easily totally ruined by over-amping the completely natural bass (and unfortunately I have listened to that on a 300k system with a close acquaintance).

The good thing about ASR, by the way, is that you get selected music tips from connoisseurs that you can listen to right away. Of course I already knew the recording of Kevin Mahogany.

The piece is a classic. Decades ago I often used to go to jazz clubs in the Heidelberg area (Germany) where the headquarters of the US Army in Europe was. Very good musicians often came from there for sessions. Today I have less opportunity to do this and I also prefer to listen to classical or contemoporary classical music.

 

[Chromatischism]

BTW: I once witnessed an interesting experiment at the university of music in Mainz, Germany.

View attachment 296709

In the big organ hall of the university, which was still empty and under construction at that time, Arne Wiegand's "spatial frequency installation" was droning. The idea behind it: A tone exactly corresponding to the resonant frequency of the hall was permanently played through powerful subwoofers. The frequency of exactly 21.8809 Hz - at a temperature of about 18° Celsius - that presses unbearably hard into your body at some listening positions, but interestingly enough, you can also easily escape it at other points in the room - where the vibrations almost completely cancel each other out - by wandering around in the large space and looking for marked positions on the ground.

One point which was nearly quiet was directly in Front of the huge subs (my photo).

Yup, a local modal effect caused by additive interference of waves. Think of the space like a pool of audio soup. These effects will be at different frequencies and locations all over the room in 3D space.