Studio Monitors in HI-Fi Systems @ 7ft

[kazsud]

I have a pair of Genelec 8340 in my living room, listening distance about 4 meters. They sound great with the built-in room correction.

Does the sound stage reach you or is it a bit in front of you?

 

[soundwave76]

My living room 8340 setup is not optimal. The speakers are too close to each other for the 4m listening distance. Their primary role is to provide sound for the tv + occasional music listening. In my opinion, Genelec's sound best with shorter listening distances.

 

[Ron Texas]

My living room 8340 setup is not optimal. The speakers are too close to each other for the 4m listening distance. Their primary role is to provide sound for the tv + occasional music listening. In my opinion, Genelec's sound best with shorter listening distances.

I noticed that with my 305's. When I went further than 7' things were a bit worse.

 

[LDKTA]

I noticed that with my 305's. When I went further than 7' things were a bit worse.

I would have gotten the 308s. Zero issues from 10' when I initially had them setup as mains in my living room. Lots of headroom as well. The price difference between the two is too marginal to not go with the larger monitor.

 

[Old Listener]

Such 3-way systems have uneven horizontal dispersion and I think Toole's research showed that this factor plays a bigger role in subjective sound quality evaluations than non-linear distortion.

Some pro audio 3-way monitors are designed to be placed with the long dimension horizontal. The graphs I've seen for the Neumann KH300 and my Dynaudio LYD48 monitors show quite even off-axis (horizontal) response. You c an find those graphs and more on the manufacturers' websites.

Perhaps you could provide some evidence to back your statements.

 

[Ron Texas]

I woukd have gotten the 308s. Zero issues from 10' when I initially had them setup as mains in my living room. Lots of headroom as well. The price difference between the two is too marginal to not go with the larger monitor.

It's down to $70 each from $100. The 308's do look a bit large on stands.

 

[LDKTA]

It's down to $70 each from $100. The 308's do look a bit large on stands.

I bought mine from GC when they were on sale for $300 a pair. You can find them B-Stock (with 5 Year Warranty) or Open Box ($145/ea on eBay right now) for nearly the same price, if not cheaper. They are significantly larger but it's definitely worth it. You'd get used to them in no time, just make sure that if you do upgrade, make sure to get appropriate stands for them.

 

[Ron Texas]

I bought mine from GC when they were on sale for $300 a pair. You can find them B-Stock (with 5 Year Warranty) or Open Box ($145/ea on eBay right now) for nearly the same price, if not cheaper. They are significantly larger but it's definitely worth it. You'd get used to them in no time, just make sure that if you do upgrade, make sure to get appropriate stands for them.

I bought the 305's to tide me over while my LS50's are out of the house. It was one of those buy it right away deals at a local Guitar Center. Not sure what I will do with them when the LS50's return, but I will find something.

 

[Erik]

Perhaps you could provide some evidence to back your statements.

Do I really need to? Ok, here is official horizontal dispersion data for KH310 and KH420.

 

[Ron Texas]

Lower chart looks really good.

 

[digicidal]

I would have gotten the 308s. Zero issues from 10' when I initially had them setup as mains in my living room. Lots of headroom as well. The price difference between the two is too marginal to not go with the larger monitor.

While the price difference is indeed marginal - I went to GC to pick up the 308's and left with the 305's. I found the 305's to be subjectively better at everything other than the lowest frequencies. If I didn't have a sub, and wasn't planning on using them for TV/movie duty as well - then I might have stuck with the 308's, but the midrange and upper bass sounded much cleaner and more dynamic on the 305's (obviously not so with the lower bass as that was virtually non-existent on the 305's in an open (and noisy) space like GC had them set up.

Totally subjective and meaningless comparison as it was neither blind, nor even in a reasonable listening environment - but it was largely 'fair' at least in that the positions and levels were matched.

 

[BDWoody]

I bought the 305's to tide me over while my LS50's are out of the house. It was one of those buy it right away deals at a local Guitar Center. Not sure what I will do with them when the LS50's return, but I will find something.

So it sounds like you aren't planning to sell the LS50's?

 

[Ron Texas]

So it sounds like you aren't planning to sell the LS50's?

Right now, I don't have any idea of what the future holds.

 

[Old Listener]

Do I really need to? Ok, here is official horizontal dispersion data for KH310 and KH420.

Perhaps you can comment on what you see in those graphs.

 

[maxxevv]

While the price difference is indeed marginal - I went to GC to pick up the 308's and left with the 305's. I found the 305's to be subjectively better at everything other than the lowest frequencies. If I didn't have a sub, and wasn't planning on using them for TV/movie duty as well - then I might have stuck with the 308's, but the midrange and upper bass sounded much cleaner and more dynamic on the 305's (obviously not so with the lower bass as that was virtually non-existent on the 305's in an open (and noisy) space like GC had them set up.

Totally subjective and meaningless comparison as it was neither blind, nor even in a reasonable listening environment - but it was largely 'fair' at least in that the positions and levels were matched.

As subjective as it is, sometimes is just simply a perception issue.

The lower power and lesser bass output of the 305's compared to the 308 can create an audio illusion of sorts that you experienced there. Very similar with what many experience with headphones when outputs are not properly matched.

The 305's being what they are may be operating at a higher volume setting than the 308's. This is mostly due to the bass response, needing the 305's to be set at a higher volume to "sound the same" as the 308's. As a result, the "clarity" stands out, with the 308's operating at a lower volume and a higher bass output sounding a lot more muffled. If there was a microphone matched measurement, I think your perceived differences would be somewhat different.

 

[digicidal]

As subjective as it is, sometimes is just simply a perception issue.

The lower power and lesser bass output of the 305's compared to the 308 can create an audio illusion of sorts that you experienced there. Very similar with what many experience with headphones when outputs are not properly matched.

The 305's being what they are may be operating at a higher volume setting than the 308's. This is mostly due to the bass response, needing the 305's to be set at a higher volume to "sound the same" as the 308's. As a result, the "clarity" stands out, with the 308's operating at a lower volume and a higher bass output sounding a lot more muffled. If there was a microphone matched measurement, I think your perceived differences would be somewhat different.

They were level matched with an SPL meter and were placed as close to each other as possible. You are correct in that the 308's were likely using less power to achieve the same level output however - which might have colored the sound some. I adjusted their positions just enough to (again subjectively) create as identical a sound stage presentation to each other so I could better hear just their tonal differences.

Still it's entirely possible that I would not hear the same difference in a 'perfect' ABX comparison - although the time required to place/replace them in exactly the same positions, would guarantee that I had forgotten how the previous setting actually sounded. I felt the compromises made (considering the environment) were the lesser evil.

 

[LTig]

Such 3-way systems have uneven horizontal dispersion and I think Toole's research showed that this factor plays a bigger role in subjective sound quality evaluations than non-linear distortion.

Neumann KH310 horizontal directivity plot:

Neumann KH310 vertical directivity plot:

 

[LTig]

They were level matched with an SPL meter and were placed as close to each other as possible. You are correct in that the 308's were likely using less power to achieve the same level output however - which might have colored the sound some. I adjusted their positions just enough to (again subjectively) create as identical a sound stage presentation to each other so I could better hear just their tonal differences.

According to @Floyd Toole listening to a single speaker makes it easier to hear differences in tonality.

 

[digicidal]

According to @Floyd Toole listening to a single speaker makes it easier to hear differences in tonality.

That is an interesting option I didn't consider - but I will employ in future auditions. As well as actually reading his book thoroughly.

I was just looking for some FR charts of both to see if there was anything there... and although far from laboratory conditions, I found a couple in the reviews for both at noaudiophile.com:
LSR308:

LSR305:

Obviously the room is playing havoc with the low end... so I'm not even looking at that... however, there appear to be quite a few differences in the 800Hz and up area which could have been what I perceived. Unfortunately it appears he ran one at 90dB average and the other at 85dB? So we're still in the apples to oranges camp... or at least green apples to red apples. However, I'm wondering if that peak at 1.5kHz (with dips on either side) was largely responsible for my perception of better upper bass/lower midrange clarity.

Edit: Perhaps I should say the dip at ~950Hz in the 308's followed by the peaks in the upper mids made it sound worse? That's the other issue with subjective analysis... without a 'perfect' control... what is "better" might actually be more "inaccurate" - it's just my ears/brain prefer it for whatever reason. Regardless... they both sounded better than anything else I listened to within twice their price range. I did like the Adam A7X's a little better... but they're more than 3 times as much (and I only slightly preferred them).

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just for comparison to see what is common to the speaker, here are some measures taken at my LP (9 ft from the speakers at the time I think). I believe the measures you show were closer than that. This is LSR 305. I tried to match scaling and smoothing.

Here is the 305 is a very different position. Very close to the rear wall and on a corner between two rooms. Red is the same as above, and green is the new measurement in a different location.