It's doubtful that Harmans in-room curve looked much better before smoothing. It's not hard to come up with valid critique of this product, before anyone accuses me of running a defence.
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Stax SR-009S Electrostatic Headphone Review
- Thread starter amirm
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brandall10
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If we ignore Impulse/waterfall then we're we're dealing with quantum unobtanium.
In the real world, when there is new information to reproduce, a particular material will take so long to respond, and when it no longer exists, to return to a steady state.
It stands to reason, everything else equal, a material that has less mass should react quicker.
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I will never attack personal choices. It's a bit like arguing about favorite colors.
I think this is a red herring that people sometimes include - "speed of the driver" or something, which is what you're talking about here. It's all included in the frequency response & distortion in terms of it's capabilities. As far as I understand it's explainable in mathematical terms, something about a Fourier Transform, but I don't understand it. Oratory or a few others on this website would be able to explain it to you though - all the information is encapsulated in the frequency response & distortion.
Keith_W
Major Contributor
I have listened to the same headphone in several setups, but I have never seen measurements of it. This review confirms my subjective impression - it is bass shy, but it has amazing spatial qualities. I know I am sounding like a subjectivist but the top end has a certain lack of coloration and delicacy as if the sound is emerging from thin air. I voted golfing panther.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Yep that is true, at the eardrum.
Too bad measurements above 6kHz start to be inaccurate and above 8kHz even more so and are completely inaccurate above 9kHz so whatever information is encapsulated in the measured frequency response will say nothing about the speed, attack and decay of the actual driver and how that interacts with someone's ears.
The measurements are only referenced to a standard and in this case only to a certain fit on a specific fixture as well. So safe to say we know nothing about the treble performance other than 1 measurement to 1 standard fixture in the position Amir measured it in against an overly smoothed/averaged target developed using a slightly different pinna as well.
That's all. It is indicative and not hard reality.
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brandall10
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Distortion/FR is a steady state measurement, no? Impulse/decay is response over time to changing input. Is it the case that something which produces high distortion at a particular frequency at a particular volume, will consequently lose energy to distortion speeding up/slowing down and have a slower rate of change? Even still, we need to have all the measurements at various levels to achieve what that response is. Taking distortion plots at a few levels will give a picture but won't tell the whole story.
Have a link to what you're thinking of, oratary or otherwise? Glancing at a few articles on waterfall plots not finding mention of using distortion for derivation or vice versa.
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Yep, I'm aware that measurements on fixtures are only a general indication of overall level in that area above 10kHz - which is why people like Oratory often just use High Shelf EQ Filters in that area in their EQ's.
I've found this from Oratory1990:
‘… some things that look gross in the frequency response, the ear says, “I don’t care”.’
– Siegfried Linkwitz
SR-009S will respond to EQ much better than 99% of headphones since its distortionless even in bass, and yes EQ is invaluable tool when it comes to headphonesSo why even bother measuring them or any other headphone for that matter. By your explanation practically every headphone should be golden since you can just EQ it?
Tts like saying that you expect expensive stove to cook you a meal, the issues will be there irrespective of headphones, due to your very own head-related transfer function.
Glad to see this review, long time follower, first time poster. I've been a Stax fan for a long time and would like to improve my experience of them by trying some equalization. Can anyone recommend an EQ device that could be integrated with my Stax systems? A complete newb here, what do I use, and where does it go? I assume it has to go after the headphone amplifier? My best Stax system is the older SR-007's with the Stax tube amp, which is widely thought to be underpowered, but would like to try boosting the bass with parametric EQ. They are pretty good at the lowest bass, but lack punch at mid-bass. All in all, I usually just leave them in the box and use dynamic phones since those've gotten so good. Thanks for any tips.
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What / where are your sources? If we are talking digital sources (streamed or locally stored files) the obvious place to EQ is in or just after the player software. Or, put another way, before or in the device doing the digital to analog conversion.
If you are talking analog sources or CDs, then things get more expensive and complex.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Yep but that may well be incorrect. He adds this by listening to the headphone and adjusting the shelf and is not based on measurements.
For the sake of discussion, I generally have output (balanced) directly from a Sony SCD-XA5400ES, using CD or SACD discs. I sometimes connect to a Mac mini using Audirvana Plus and an external DAC. Guess that's easier (use software). But would love to try analog balanced on the old Sony ES player.
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I think you are in the realms of some of the MiniDSP devices for the Sony analog out.
Or if you want to splash the cash, rme adi 2 pro.
Yep, I agree inasmuch that's why that High Shelf Filter is listed as one of his user customisation filters, created to be manipulated & changed by the end user after listening to their headphone. In my experience though I've worked out roughly where I want to see the response in GRAS measurements above 10kHz, I like to see it a little bit below the 1kHz SPL level.....so for me I'd EQ first on the basis of the measurement and then listen to it to decide.....so I think there is some good general relevance to the measurement above 10kHz in my experience.
Thank you. It's the best thing to happen to my set-up ever.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
solderdude
Grand Contributor
-5dB
BrooklynNick
Member
There is a widespread belief among STAX users in various forums that the amp makes a dramatic difference to how the headphones sound. The claim is that the amp makes a much bigger difference to how an electrostatic headphones sounds than it does for a dynamic or planar headphone.
I've done some subjective A/B comparisons and find that the amp does make a difference, but much less than many seem to believe.
It would be amazing service to the community if @amirm could do amp/headphone measurements to answer this once and for all. For example, measuring the STAX SR-009S with a few different amps at different price points. Without this information, there will always be a question if ASR electrostatic headphones measurements reflect the headphone's performance or are showing the limitations of the amp.
I've done some subjective A/B comparisons and find that the amp does make a difference, but much less than many seem to believe.
It would be amazing service to the community if @amirm could do amp/headphone measurements to answer this once and for all. For example, measuring the STAX SR-009S with a few different amps at different price points. Without this information, there will always be a question if ASR electrostatic headphones measurements reflect the headphone's performance or are showing the limitations of the amp.
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