Starting with turntables

[Sal1950]

I enjoy open reel, cassette, compact disc, DAT, vinyl reproduction, broadcast radio and very rarely, computer/file based playback. The latter gives me zero joy. There is no interaction, no challenge, no history and no fun. It's a hollow experience for me.

That's where we differ John.
Computer/file playback offers the best of all listening experiences for me.
It allows best possible sound quality available today, and lets me hear as deeply into the music as currently possible.
All the while being the most convenient source and offering the least possible interference into my listening focus.
What is it about "interaction, challenge, history and fun" that improves your appreciation of music and not just gets in the way of it? I don't need a toy to play with to best appreciate the MUSIC.
YMMV

 

[Salt]

Nearly 42 years ago, a digital consumer music format was introduced which was demonstrably superior in every measurable and audible parameter to the pre-eminent formats of the time. Nobody argues with that.

The fact that people continue to enjoy and pursue other music carrying formats all those decades later is testament to the attraction of relative simplicity of those formats and the incredible satisfaction that can come from using products from a simpler time. I love the fact kids today are doing exactly that- listening and buying vinyl in huge quantities.

I enjoy open reel, cassette, compact disc, DAT, vinyl reproduction, broadcast radio and very rarely, computer/file based playback. The latter gives me zero joy. There is no interaction, no challenge, no history and no fun. It's a hollow experience for me.

I listen to music when I want to be moved, when I want to become emotional and when I want, or need to listen to music. It is never played in the background.

Statement.
Agree.

 

[restorer-john]

What is it about "interaction, challenge, history and fun" that improves your appreciation of music and not just gets in the way of it?

Exactly the same way you enjoy a live concert where the acoustics were absolute garbage, but the band’s performance, the people you went with, and the atmosphere were totally awesome and absolutely unforgettable.

We’re all different in what drives our appreciation for reproduction of music in the home, and that’s what makes it interesting.

Some people just want the meal on a plate, others are invested in sourcing each and every ingredient, the entire process, with the end result being just a part of the experience.

I'm very happy with where I've landed and probably, so are you. Enough projects here for several lifetimes, with enough physical music to see me and a few others out. As for gear, I've hit the limits of performance decades ago, with the sources I use and the content you can buy for those sources.

ASR may have started out with lofty goals, but it is rapidly becoming the equivalent of the photographic pixel-peepers- taking closeup shots of newspapers and brick walls and telling everyone they need more megapixels and a better lens when they've completely lost sight of what taking a picture is all about- capturing the moment.

 

[Sal1950]

Exactly the same way you enjoy a live concert where the acoustics were absolute garbage, but the band’s performance, the people you went with, and the atmosphere were totally awesome and absolutely unforgettable.

But not near as much so as in small venue where the acoustics are very good, the band is great, the people are relatively quiet and respectful of the performance, etc; that's the best of nights.
We have a choice between the incredible and the mediocre in sources, why chose the mediocre, pay more for it, and have to constantly fart with it to keep it at it's best.
Just don't make sense.

 

[Robin L]

But not near as much so as in small venue where the acoustics are very good, the band is great, the people are relatively quiet and respectful of the performance, etc; that's the best of nights.
We have a choice between the incredible and the mediocre in sources, why chose the mediocre, pay more for it, and have to constantly fart with it to keep it at it's best.
Just don't make sense.

You can't stick Mahler's Resurrection in a small space.

People's tastes and desires are different. You don't seem to be able to accept that.

 

[Sal1950]

You can't stick Mahler's Resurrection in a small space.

People's tastes and desires are different. You don't seem to be able to accept that.

IMHO, I'm not having a discussion on taste, it's a discussion of High Fidelity Music Reproduction.
That's what this site was created to do. You have a million places you can jabber about "sounds good to me and taste" , whether it's vinyl, power cords, or Synergistic Research's worthless widgets. Here we are supposed to be separating the poor, fair and great. All I'm doing is pointing out vinyls failings in the light of whats possible in 2023.
Why all the push back when I'm 100% right on the subject?
Why don't you go and support the gentlemen on the latest cable threads when he says he hears differences and it's "a matter of gear, ears, and taste"? They like playing with those toys too???

ASR may have started out with lofty goals, but it is rapidly becoming the equivalent of the photographic pixel-peepers- taking closeup shots of newspapers and brick walls and telling everyone they need more megapixels and a better lens when they've completely lost sight of what taking a picture is all about- capturing the moment.

John, I'm not discussing the difference between a 85db SINAD and 120db SINAD.
The spread between digital and vinyl is miles wider than that.

 

[VMAT4]

Discussion is about turntables, not record cleaning mashines, what would be worth another two or three threads .

Discussion is about a first turntable. Therefor getting into vinyl. It's not a wise thing to do by the way. But, if you're gonna do it, you'll need a vacuum record cleaning machine. As you're not the OP, why get snotty?

 

[AaronJ]

you'll need a vacuum record cleaning machine

This is not true, and given the OP’s stated space constraints also not reasonable.

Again, discussion was not intended to be about what the OP may or may not need to get into vinyl or whether it’s a good idea. He wants a turntable and has been given plenty of unrelated advice.

My advice to the OP is consistent with the previously recommended inexpensive Audio Technica turntables. Fits within the budget and relatively small footprint. As you’re new to the hobby you’ll know after playing a few records if it’s something you do or don’t want to get deeper into.

 

[linuxfan]

a Rega 2 would be my first port of call (fit something like an Ortofon Super OM5e or follow the fashion for an AT VM95E)

Agreed. Rega 1 and Rega 2 run circles around other entry-level turntables, and are many people claim that they should not even be classed as entry-level.
Whatever the case, Rega 2's are often cherished by their owners. Just ask the people who still use the Rega 2 they bought in the 1970's.

 

[DSJR]

In the UK, Rega decks are a no brainer as *here,* parts are cheap and usually the more established dealers for the brand can service them cheaply or even for nothing as I used to do. Too many new-wave dealers (especially one chain dealership in the south) just sell them in unopened boxes though (we used to fit cartridges to and check/set up EVERY ONE we sold, but that doesn't happen now)...

For me, the popular ProJect line has failings of one sort or another and there's so dfamned many of them it's like 'a deck for all seasons!'

I'd still look at a Technics SL100C and add a ML or SH stylus to the VM95 (C) body as upgrade...

 

[zonk]

I would recommend a Technics turntable, the tonearm has a replaceable headshell. And used Technics turntables are quite stable in value over long time in case you want to sell/upgrade it in the future.

 

[Sal1950]

I'd prefer a sweet ole classic Linn Sondek if I was going vinyl.

 

[Phorize]

You can buy some very nice headphones for the price of an absolutely crap turntable.

 

[Sal1950]

You can buy some very nice headphones for the price of an absolutely crap turntable.

That's a fact, Jack

 

[Godataloss]

Vinyl CAN be fun, but these days you need to be a bit of a masochist really. If you don't have an existing collection of discs, I'd still suggest not bothering at all - this from an older bod with a collection of classic and sh*t models I really need to start moving on for my better half's sake as she doesn't want to be lumbered with them!

Not sure about where you live, but players and records are quite easy to sell. Not only that, it's pretty easy to realize a profit. It's really the only way of collecting music that makes any sense. I still pay for access for digital services, but there is music out there I like to own.

 

[TSX]

A word of caution. In the spring of 2022, i got a mental (hifi) meltdown, and I got the brilliant idea, that I had to have a turntable in my setup, so I bought a Pro-Ject X1. Brand new at my favourite local hifi dealer. My preamp has a very good phono preamp, and my system at the time was a 13-14K € active speaker system with an analog preamp. A few months back I sold the turntable. The box was still unopened. My point is. Vinyl sounds like a really good idea, until you actually have to use it. Records easily cost 30-50$ a piece, and that’s not even for the harder to get albums. Unless you’re the type that really enjoy the tactile process of handling and playing vinyl, I’d say it’s a very bad idea to invest in that kind of technology. A Roon lifetime subscription is cheaper that a mediocre turntable, and that’s the route I went. If the two options in 1950 were vinyl or streaming, there would be no vinyl today.

 

[Sal1950]

Not sure about where you live, but players and records are quite easy to sell. Not only that, it's pretty easy to realize a profit. It's really the only way of collecting music that makes any sense.

Do you really believe this fad will last forever?
One of these days the bottom will drop out of the market..

 

[Sal1950]

I still pay for access for digital services, but there is music out there I like to own.

Sure, but I'm not paying to own third tier SQ vinyl.
Buy the digital version on hard media or download.
If your going to pay to own, own the best.
I have approx 5k albums in top quality 2, 4, 5.1ch, Atmos, and Auro3D versions on the hard-drive.

 

[Salt]

Individual intentions are individually intended.
No need for discussion.

 

[AaronJ]

Sure, but I'm not paying to own third tier SQ vinyl.
Buy the digital version on hard media or download.
If your going to pay to own, own the best.
I have approx 5k albums in top quality 2, 4, 5.1ch, Atmos, and Auro3D versions on the hard-drive.

Why are you being a turd in the punch bowl of this sub forum? Stop being so insecure about your own preferences that you need to tell others how to spend their time and money.