SMSL PS 200 internal view

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Hi.

Here's somme pictures ->

There you go

Well now I'm going to listen to it

 

[capslock]

Thanks. Can you make a larger picture of the op amps in the output section, please? I would like to know what models they are and how many in total (i.e. are those single or dual op amps per case) to figure out if there is a way to patch in a balanced output.

 

[KomodoDragon]

Thanks. Can you make a larger picture of the op amps in the output section, please? I would like to know what models they are and how many in total (i.e. are those single or dual op amps per case) to figure out if there is a way to patch in a balanced output.

I occasionally use the cheaper PS100 since a while ago. I would not trust the PS200 to be a good product based on my PS100 experience.

I haven’t done a direct comparison between PS100 and some very old ESS 9018 dongle dac I have, but the PS100 sounds noisier on the higher frequencies than what I remember from the other product. I suspect SMSL has been cutting too much corners in design. I do think it’s ok for heavily compressed podcasts but not much more. Either some components have compromised high frequency capabilities of the dac chip, or the design is a failure.

I would expect the PS200 to share the same approach to cutting corners aggressively, and ESS dac chips don’t seem too easy to implement properly. I’m personally not going to ever buy anything super cheap from Smsl they offer in a cheap plastic case.

 

[capslock]

It is maybe unfortunate that they chose to revive the PS prefix. From what I've read, the PS100 is compromised in many ways (48 kHz max via USB, probably poor power supply etc.). The PS200 is a different animal. From the picture above I see:
- full XMOS USB bridge
- dedicated DC/DC power supply generating +/- 12 V for the op amps
- definetly no voltage out low-cost implementation - there are enough op-amps for I/V conversion - just not sure how the implemented the balanced to single ended conversion and the common mode correction
- MELF resistors (also a low distortion choice)

If you look here

https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/882.html

and scroll down almost to the bottom, there is this. -130 dB highest harmonics is already very good, even if the chip is capable of -140 or better. -119 dB SINAD seems almost too good to be true on single ended outputs, which is why I would like to see independent measurements.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

hi capslock

Yes, you can 'patch' a balanced output

Here is the schematic diagram from TI as well as the identification of the OPamps on the PCB.
This will give you an answer about how the output signal is unbalanced.

For my part with this DAC, it is the first time that I observe a device where there is nothing at all to complain about or modify concerning the technical choices often linked to economic concerns, everything has been achieved with the best known and proven solutions compared to other achievements.

It's completely mind-blowing when you know that It is offered as an entry-level low-cost product...
... you would be amazed at the obvious musical quality of this DAC compared to the SU-1 model: day and night !

I know that this is totally subjective but I am completely convinced of what I am saying.

For this to happen, AMIR would have to review 'this little gem' and we could surely observe the level of appreciation of this device in the survey carried out as always.

@ KomodoDragon

I'm really sorry for your bad experience with the PS100

However, regarding this PS200 model: you are literally wrong.

I think you're obviously not a 'techie' because if you had looked at the internal design of the PS100 you wouldn't have bought it or at least you wouldn't have been disappointed to get a low-cost entry-level device that 'does' what it was designed to do properly when looking at the inside of the PS200, you would rush to buy it for fear that SMSL would be wrong in the sale price or that its sale would soon end in 'call price' to make people talk about it and crush the competition

We are, in my opinion, in the presence of one of the rare creations that sometimes obtain the reputation of 'GIANT KILLER'

However, I agree with you about the 'ultra cheap' aspect of this DAC It would have been great if SMSL offered it in an aluminum box with a display and a remote control.
Maybe we'll see a PS200+ soon

 

[capslock]

Thanks a lot. Which TI datasheet was this taken from? It clearly is not from the ES9039Q2M data sheet but knowing what the op-amp types are already helps a lot.

There is a PS200+ already, or actually two: D6-S and DL200. Unfortunately, both of them are twice the price of the PS200, but they come with display, remote and balanced out.

While the DL200 was never independently tested to my knowledge, the D6-S was tested by Amir.

SMSL D-6s Balanced DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL D-6s balanced stereo DAC with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $199. I was pleasantly surprised with the new industrial design which while minimalistic, manages to impress with its modern style. Love the matt...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Interestingly, even with unbalanced (RCA) out, it does better than the PS200 in SMSL's own measurement: -138 dB highest HD and -121 dB SINAD.

And even more interesting: it does worse in Amir's measurement than in SMSL's own measurement, so maybe the PS200 is also a tad too optimistic?

https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/863.html

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Indeed, the diagram is taken from the DATASHEET of the ES9038Q2M but the structure of its audio output pins are comparable from the point of view of technical implementation.

Otherwise, you may be right but for the moment AMIR has not taken the measurements of the PS200, after that we can confirm it

However, the fact remains that this DAC costs 2 times less than the D-6s:
it therefore perfectly meets the 'conditions' for which SMSL designed it and I think it can be 'THE KING' in this price range

NB: I use my PS200 DAC with a linear power supply that has only 2mV of ripple and it is connected to my PC with the TOSLINK optical jack.

I thus avoid as much as possible any risk of 'parasites' that can come from the power supply or by the link cables (USB or coaxial), since in the end I only use it in 24bits/96KHz which suits me perfectly.

I think that this way I must get closer or maybe exceed the performance of the D6s with its integrated power supply which seems to have been really well done.

The latter, however, being a switching power supply, must generate a larger ripple as is always the case, i.e. 10 or rather 100 times larger. (among others...)

I think that between the two DACs only the power supply should create a 'performance gap' since otherwise the circuits seem to be almost rigorously identical.

But wait and see the review...

 

[capslock]

Well, let's not forget that there are various SMPS inside the PS200 to step down from 5 V as well as up to +/- 12 V. SMPS no longer necessarily have a problem with transients and parasitics. That being said, there can be a problem with ground loops and parasitic capacitance in any mains connected power supply, be it switching or linear. The safest way is to go battery powered. Then again, most power banks contain a SMPS.

 

[JSmith]

And even more interesting: it does worse in Amir's measurement than in SMSL's own measurement

Did you notice SMSL max out the voltage for their testing (5V in your screenshot)? Amir caps it at approx. 4V for standard balanced out DAC testing on the AP dashboard.


JSmith

 

[capslock]

Thanks, hadn't noticed that. That would explain the better SNR but not the better harmonics. So maybe it was a selected sample or they fine tuned the distortion registers.

 

[Neil08]

For my part with this DAC, it is the first time that I observe a device where there is nothing at all to complain about or modify concerning the technical choices often linked to economic concerns, everything has been achieved with the best known and proven solutions compared to other achievements.

It's completely mind-blowing when you know that It is offered as an entry-level low-cost product..

We are, in my opinion, in the presence of one of the rare creations that sometimes obtain the reputation of 'GIANT KILLER'

My PS200 arrived this morning. I know we don't do subjective opinion on this forum, but I second your positive thoughts @ICIETDIYEUR. For the £68 I paid on Amazon UK it's amazing value. I cant wait for Amir to test it so that we can see if it measures as well as it (to my ears) sounds

 

[nanook]

Interestingly, even with unbalanced (RCA) out, it does better than the PS200 in SMSL's own measurement: -138 dB highest HD and -121 dB SINAD.

I think there are part to part differences for the DAC chip and the ESS DACs allow to optimise h2 and h3 via register settings.
In production, you will not adjust these settings for each unit individually (though Ivan does for the ADC(iso)), but rather program values that fit well for the majority of the units.

Thus you will find units where these correction values fit pretty well and others where they do not. And for sure the measurements shown on the manufacturers website will not be the latter ones ;-)

 

[johny_2000]

So many scratched off IC part numbers! They are really trying to hide some know-how.

 

[restorer-john]

So many scratched off IC part numbers! They are really trying to hide some know-how.

It's kind of ironic that our Chinese friends now have to protect their circuits from other fellow Chinese manufacturers copying their designs.

 

[Chr1]

But I bet there are people/companies from the UK, USA etc, who are now looking to emulate/copy some of these modern decent Chinese circuit designs too. Especially DACs.

How the world has changed!

 

[Chr1]

My other hobby is motorcycles. Similar time line there too. Post second world war, the Japanese copied and improved on British, American and Italian designs. Twenty years ago, the Chinese started copying all of the above. Now I am seeing Chinese engines winning in the Moto3 (smaller MotoGP class). For the first time ever, I would consider a Chinese motorcycle purchase as the manufacturing quality control and long term reliability appear to be similar now too. Not only that, their modern triple, which emulates/copies the Triumph 675/765, which I own, now has original innovations not on the Triumph. Globalisation/copying, I guess.

Not sure I'd buy a small Chinese desktop amp yet tho. At least not until they manage their cooling/reliability better...

 

[restorer-john]

Not sure I'd buy a small Chinese desktop amp yet tho. At least not until they manage their cooling/reliability better...

They will get there soon enough. When they realize the temperature extremes of the countries and markets they sell into.

 

[Chr1]

Indeed. It's weird though, because from what I can gather, China has extremes in temperature too. Reckon half the problem, as has been pointed out lots, is trying to make everything tiny for desktop use.
Still puzzled by the odd use of horizontal cooling fins (vs vertical), side panel vents (vs top) on their bigger amp models tho...Odd.

 

[Koeitje]

Thanks a lot. Which TI datasheet was this taken from? It clearly is not from the ES9039Q2M data sheet but knowing what the op-amp types are already helps a lot.

There is a PS200+ already, or actually two: D6-S and DL200. Unfortunately, both of them are twice the price of the PS200, but they come with display, remote and balanced out.

While the DL200 was never independently tested to my knowledge, the D6-S was tested by Amir.

SMSL D-6s Balanced DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL D-6s balanced stereo DAC with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $199. I was pleasantly surprised with the new industrial design which while minimalistic, manages to impress with its modern style. Love the matt...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Interestingly, even with unbalanced (RCA) out, it does better than the PS200 in SMSL's own measurement: -138 dB highest HD and -121 dB SINAD.

And even more interesting: it does worse in Amir's measurement than in SMSL's own measurement, so maybe the PS200 is also a tad too optimistic?

https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/863.html

View attachment 387406

Measured at 4.9Vrms, not the standard 4V for balanced. That's why its higher (less noise). Just subtract a couple of dB, its SOTA anyway.

 

[somebodyelse]

It's kind of ironic that our Chinese friends now have to protect their circuits from other fellow Chinese manufacturers copying their designs.

It's not a new issue. Remember the fake D10? Or the claim that SMSL and Eversolo had copied Topping? IIRC that was backed up with PCB photos in a different thread, but I can't find it now.