SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

[epicure]

Smsl c200 vs dl200

Short:
Size and weight (obvious);
Both are sturdy an well built, but the dl200 motherboard layout is cleaner and feels more premium. No surprise here, because it's larger and there is more space to "work";
Can use dP1 on dl200 in USB 2.0. On C200 it must be on dP4 (same pc system);
Almost the same power output. Tried 4,4mm on both (note that dl200 is balanced). No major diference (at least for my ears). Only compared with the Kiwi Quintet with balanced cable;
Slight problem with dl200 BT antenna. The screw thread is shorter because it stays a bit away from de back panel (see picture),
so the antenna becomes a bit loose because it doesn't press all the way down. However, I didn't noticed any problem with the connection.
Also, removing the hex nut solves the issue. The screw is soldered on the motherboard and is sturdy enough.
This is only a brief impression.

View attachment 305546View attachment 305547View attachment 305548View attachment 305549View attachment 305550

So much space on the board. Wish they would have used XLR sockets.

 

[doalt]

Also, what measurements? All I’ve seen are published specs, and not at 13ohm.

My point exactly. We have seen headphone amps drop power even at 16ohm, so performance at 13ohm can't be predicted by specs or measurements that only cover 32-300ohm. There is a chance that RME actually does it better at 13ohm, and we could only confirm this by measuring them with a 13ohm load.

Um the DL200 should be able to drive the Aeons to unlistenably high levels regardless.

This is the second piece of the puzzle that needs solving, and I don't think we should jump to conclusions too quickly. According to headphone power calculator, 1W should push DCA stealth to 124dB, but @amirm simply said C200 "power output was average."

With the 400+ DACs he has tested, I trust him to know if a DAC is loud enough for his headphone. So this means the calculator may have oversimplified output power vs. loudness.

 

[shuppatsu]

@Boxermotor's headphones are the Aeon X Open. Supposedly the differences between the RT and the X are cosmetic. Amir measured the sensitivity of the RT Closed to be 677mv@4794dBSPL. (edit: corrected typo).

Using this formula--94+20*log10(1/[Amir's Vrms]) = dB SPL / 1Vrms--gives 97dB@1VRMS. At that sensitivity, 3W would get you to 113dB, barely clearing the standard 110dB target and well below what--for example--Audeze recommends for its headphones.

 

[nerdemoji]

My point exactly. We have seen headphone amps drop power even at 16ohm, so performance at 13ohm can't be predicted by specs or measurements that only cover 32-300ohm. There is a chance that RME actually does it better at 13ohm, and we could only confirm this by measuring them with a 13ohm load.

While this technically is true, SMSL has stated 3Wx2 into 16 ohms. SMSL consistently hits (or surpasses) their stated specs.

This is the second piece of the puzzle that needs solving, and I don't think we should jump to conclusions too quickly. According to headphone power calculator, 1W should push DCA stealth to 124dB, but @amirm simply said C200 "power output was average."


With the 400+ DACs he has tested, I trust him to know if a DAC is loud enough for his headphone. So this means the calculator may have oversimplified output power vs. loudness.

this simply proves that even if the RME or DL200 has less power at low impedences, it will still have enough power to cause instant hearing damage. I cannot for the life of me understand how Amir comes to his conclusions on power output unless he boosts a bass tone and tries to play it at 140 db. I understand that if a headphone needs eq, the db through a headphone amp will be much higher in some regions and will require much more headroom if there are large dips in the response.

 

[nerdemoji]

@Boxermotor's headphones are the Aeon X Open. Supposedly the differences between the RT and the X are cosmetic. Amir measured the sensitivity of the RT Closed to be 677mv@47dBSPL.

Using this formula--94+20*log10(1/[Amir's Vrms]) = dB SPL / 1Vrms--gives 97dB@1VRMS. At that sensitivity, 3W would get you to 113dB, barely clearing the standard 110dB target and well below what--for example--Audeze recommends for its headphones.

He measured 677mv/94dbSPL (oh, I see, you just misclicked) .i don’t know where you got these formulas but the measured sensitivity in mw is around 86db/mw. If you use this, 114db is created with only 630mw. Perhaps you have mixed up Vrms and Watts at some point. 114dbSPL peak is still well above a reasonable level. Mixing is done at around 80-86 db average. If we assume ten db peaks, 114dbSPL is still 10 db above that. There should be no doubt that the DL200 has far above normal levels for headphones.

 

[shuppatsu]

this simply proves that even if the RME or DL200 has less power at low impedences, it will still have enough power to cause instant hearing damage. I cannot for the life of me understand how Amir comes to his conclusions on power output unless he boosts a bass tone and tries to play it at 140 db. I understand that if a headphone needs eq, the db through a headphone amp will be much higher in some regions and will require much more headroom if there are large dips in the response.

Don’t confuse the DCA Stealth with the DCA Aeon X. And don’t confuse published spec with measurements. Headphone sensitivity measurements are frequently wrong.

Like my last post said, if the Aeon X open drivers are the same as the Aron RT closed, 3W only gets you to 113dB. And if you think 113dB results in “instant hearing damage,” I recommend rewatching that “How loud is loud” video, as well as reading that Audeze paper.

If the DL200 is current-limited at 16ohm, then it would only be capable of 2W at 13ohm.

 

[Boxermotor]

While this technically is true, SMSL has stated 3Wx2 into 16 ohms. SMSL consistently hits (or surpasses) their stated specs.


this simply proves that even if the RME or DL200 has less power at low impedences, it will still have enough power to cause instant hearing damage. I cannot for the life of me understand how Amir comes to his conclusions on power output unless he boosts a bass tone and tries to play it at 140 db. I understand that if a headphone needs eq, the db through a headphone amp will be much higher in some regions and will require much more headroom if there are large dips in the response.

Believe me, I am protective of my hearing. But as someone who listens to a lot of classical music, some tracks can be heard at higher volumes in order to bring out the detailed soundstage. It's frustrating to max out the volume when it could still go a bit higher. Again, my Aeon Open X's challenge many amps (definitely not the RME's), and the DL200 disappoints on that front. The DAC is superb, however, and sounds clear and detailed on my headphones and KH 120 A monitors.

 

[shuppatsu]

He measured 677mv/94dbSPL (oh, I see, you just misclicked) .

Thanks, fixed.

i don’t know where you got these formulas but the measured sensitivity in mw is around 86db/mw.

Formula here. Where did you get the 86dB/mW figure?

Perhaps you have mixed up Vrms and Watts at some point.

I have definitely made mistakes like this in the past, and I'm fully capable of making such mistakes going forward. But I showed my work so please point me to the error of my ways.

Mixing is done at around 80-86 db average. If we assume ten db peaks, 114dbSPL is still 10 db above that.

The Audeze link addresses this. Peaks can be much higher than 10dB. Also, the relevant comparator is not the average mix, but the worst-case mix. Particularly when different genres of music have wildly different standards. @Boxermotor's response quoted below gets to that.

But as someone who listens to a lot of classical music, some tracks can be heard at higher volumes in order to bring out the detailed soundstage. It's frustrating to max out the volume when it could still go a bit higher.

One of my favorite tracks to listen to loud is actually played very quietly. Isa Lei, by Ry Cooder and VM Bhatt. Due to WaterLily Acoustics' extremely minimalist mixing/mastering, played very quietly translates to recorded very quietly. Even using (per-album) ReplayGain, I need to put my L30 II in high gain to listen the way I want to. Medium-gain maximum on that track is approximately 80dBA (earballed by seeing what the iPhone reports when listening through Airpods). Even though medium-gain maximum is about 14mW, which should drive my EQ'd 6XXs to 111dB.

And that's with ReplayGain, which boosts the volume considerably. Otherwise max volume medium gain would be almost quiet.

There should be no doubt that the DL200 has far above normal levels for headphones.

That's true, but the Dan Clark Aeons are absurdly power hungry. To be sure, the DL200 would be overkill for my 6XXs.

 

[Boxermotor]

Thanks, fixed.

Formula here. Where did you get the 86dB/mW figure?

I have definitely made mistakes like this in the past, and I'm fully capable of making such mistakes going forward. But I showed my work so please point me to the error of my ways.


The Audeze link addresses this. Peaks can be much higher than 10dB. Also, the relevant comparator is not the average mix, but the worst-case mix. Particularly when different genres of music have wildly different standards. @Boxermotor's response quoted below gets to that.


One of my favorite tracks to listen to loud is actually played very quietly. Isa Lei, by Ry Cooder and VM Bhatt. Due to WaterLily Acoustics' extremely minimalist mixing/mastering, played very quietly translates to recorded very quietly. Even using (per-album) ReplayGain, I need to put my L30 II in high gain to listen the way I want to. Medium-gain maximum on that track is approximately 80dBA (earballed by seeing what the iPhone reports when listening through Airpods). Even though medium-gain maximum is about 14mW, which should drive my EQ'd 6XXs to 111dB.

And that's with ReplayGain, which boosts the volume considerably. Otherwise max volume medium gain would be almost quiet.

That's true, but the Dan Clark Aeons are absurdly power hungry. To be sure, the DL200 would be overkill for my 6XXs.

Power hungry for sure, but they sound so much better than anything I've listened to so far.

That brings up an existential question I often ponder, "If someone offered to let me try their DCA Expanse headphones, would I do it and risk being disappointed with everything I listened to after that?" After all, the only way I could justify owning $4,000 headphones would be to discover a pair lying on the side of the road with a note saying, "I relinquish these to the finder." I usually come to the conclusion that I would; if they did sound vastly superior, I would delight in the experience and be content with the expectation that the headphone equivalent of Moore's law will eventually permeate the industry.

 

[pseudoid]

Moore's law will eventually permeate the industry.

Moore's Law has no 'eventuality' in its core tenet.

 

[bng123]

Opted for the k7. Wanted to have the additional juice just in case. Also noticed that the dl200 is currently on sale

 

[TonyJZX]

SMSL DL200 AUDIO DAC & Headphone Amplifier MQA-CD ES9039Q2M

SMSL DL200 AUDIO DAC features MQA-CD ES9039Q2M, Bluetooth APTX HD, OPA1612 XU-316, and DSD512 compatibility, plus 6.35mm & 4.4mm headphone outputs and a handy remote control. Support MQA decoding, support MQA-CD; ESS new generation high-end digital-to-analog chip ES9039Q2M; Qualcomm latest...

hifi-express.com

man... $167

really cant complain at this price

 

[TonyJZX]

sale's over, find another road home pizza boy

is anyone waiting for the inevitable DL200 Mk2 w/ XLR???

 

[hoverdonkey]

sale's over, find another road home pizza boy

is anyone waiting for the inevitable DL200 Mk2 w/ XLR???

Price will be similar for BF.

No, I'll wait for the DL200LWB version (lossless wireless balanced).

 

[Dunring]

The Amazon S.M.S.L. Store has them in stock now. It's the $189 price, but no waiting 3-4 weeks for shipping. Showing here 2 day delivery times. Almost ordered one on Prime Day but couldn't wait a month for it.

https://www.amazon.com/S-M-S-L-Headphone-Amplifier-ES9039Q2M-PCM768kHz/dp/B0CCY9MXMD/#customerReviews

 

[manisandher]

I ended up returning my DL200. The headphone amp just couldn't reach the db levels I was hoping, even on high gain. Still searching for a reasonably priced balanced dac/amp solution...

Over here, the DL200 drives my DCA Aeon Closed Xs to ear-bleeding levels. Set to high gain, I rarely go beyond 50 on the DL200's volume control. But maybe we just have different preferences...

Mani.

 

[coolpoete]

Hello there! I am new to this group and have a question about this product. I'm not very technical minded so forgive me if my question sounds crazy.
Ok, a technical question for those wiser than me. I am aware that it does not decode MQA but my question is then what IS it doing here? The indicator on the amp shows that it is playing my music at 96Hz but there is no difference on my phone that I can "see" when I use my DAC dongle that DOES decode MQA. It still sounds better than the dongle, which I do expect but my question is if it is not decoding MQA is it just... "doing it's best" at this point then?

 

[staticV3]

if it is not decoding MQA is it just... "doing it's best" at this point then?

Looks like UAPP is detecting an MQA file with 96kHz sample rate, but since neither a core decoder, nor an MQA renderer is present, the file is played without unfolding, just as a regular FLAC. Hence the greyed-out MQA logo and the same sample rate for File and USB DAC.

If you purchase UAPP's MQA Core decoder add-on, then you should see the MQA logo light up and the USB DAC sample rate at twice the File's sample rate:

 

[coolpoete]

Oh ok! Yes I did get the decoder add on so thanks for that explanation!

 

[Decimeter2399]

SMSL DL200 AUDIO DAC & Headphone Amplifier MQA-CD ES9039Q2M

SMSL DL200 AUDIO DAC features MQA-CD ES9039Q2M, Bluetooth APTX HD, OPA1612 XU-316, and DSD512 compatibility, plus 6.35mm & 4.4mm headphone outputs and a handy remote control. Support MQA decoding, support MQA-CD; ESS new generation high-end digital-to-analog chip ES9039Q2M; Qualcomm latest...

hifi-express.com

man... $167

really cant complain at this price

Just a heads up. I've ordered it in hifi-express, shipping from France, and the shipment has been stuck with no updates for over a month.
Sent an email 3 weeks ago and they took a week to reply just saying they would open a case with the service provider. No updates since then. I would be wary of ordering it here if you're in Europe.