SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

[Deleted member 68540]

I have uninstalled my "DL200-specific" ASIO driver. Have since been running the DL200 in WASAPI / WASAPI Exclusive. That's what Roon also advises.

No problems as far as sound itself goes, though I unfortunately need to re-enable / name the DL200 on Roon every now and then, as Roon seems to forget it. Does anyone know how to solve this issue?

 

[jozhix]

Is 4.4mm headphone output balanced or single ended? Getting new headphones and not sure do need need to bundle them with 4.4mm cable.

 

[Nutul]

Is 4.4mm headphone output balanced or single ended? Getting new headphones and not sure do need need to bundle them with 4.4mm cable.

4.4 IS balanced.

 

[Veri]

Is 4.4mm headphone output balanced or single ended? Getting new headphones and not sure do need need to bundle them with 4.4mm cable.

"Headphone output power" is one specification, so it's safe to assume the unbalanced output is wired to both headphone ports.
Otherwise, it would say: headphone output x, 4.4mm balanced output: 2x (just for example). Not the case here.

4.4 IS balanced.

...wrong, it's just the headphone port here. For convenience with 4.4mm peripherals/cables. It's NOT like. really, balanced.

 

[Deleted member 68540]

Pardon my ignorance: my HIFIMAN headphones can generally be connected via either an unbalanced cable with 2 3.5mm SE plugs, 1 at each cup, or a balanced cable with 1 3.5mm plug, connecting through the left cup. Headphones are connected to the DL200 via a balanced 4.4 to 3.5 TRRS cable. Headphones work beautifully. *No adapter involved.* Would they work if the DL200's 4.4 output was unbalanced?

 

[staticV3]

Would they work if the DL200's 4.4 output was unbalanced?

Yes. The headphones working via Pentaconn is not a solid indication that the output is truly properly differential (not that it matters for sound quality ).

To actually check it, you'd have to probe the Pentaconn jack with a multimeter (honestly very easy).

 

[jozhix]

Thanks, so I can go with cheaper cable. There will be no difference in power.

 

[JIW]

Yes. The headphones working via Pentaconn is not a solid indication that the output is truly properly differential (not that it matters for sound quality ).

To actually check it, you'd have to probe the Pentaconn jack with a multimeter (honestly very easy).

Typically, for symmetrical drive, the balanced output has twice the voltage of the single ended for a given volume setting. This makes the headphones 6 dB louder which is an obvious difference.

If the impedance to ground is identical to the amplifier's output impedance, the single ended connection is balanced in terms of impedance and since the headphones are inherently differential receivers, there is no difference if the signal is applied to one side or is applied symmetrically. Thus, for a given voltage output of the amplifier, the headphones will behave identically.

 

[Veri]

I think some manufacturers also talk about 'pseudo' balanced in which there is no additional output voltage, but there is some crosstalk or noise benefit in using the differential connector. Nothing that could be actually audible, though..

 

[JIW]

I think some manufacturers also talk about 'pseudo' balanced in which there is no additional output voltage, but there is some crosstalk or noise benefit in using the differential connector. Nothing that could be actually audible, though..

If the impedance to ground and the output impedance is identical for the pseudo-balanced and the single ended, there is no cross-talk or noise benefit since the circuits resulting from connecting the headphones are electrically identical. One exception may be if the cable used for the single ended connection does not have separate conductors to ground for the left and right signal. In terms of induced noise, there is little to no detriment though.

One advantage of the XLR4 connector specifically is its lower contact impedance at least in some implementations such as the Benchmark HPA4. Once connection is secure, this has little relevance, however.

 

[Nutul]

"Headphone output power" is one specification, so it's safe to assume the unbalanced output is wired to both headphone ports.
Otherwise, it would say: headphone output x, 4.4mm balanced output: 2x (just for example). Not the case here.


...wrong, it's just the headphone port here. For convenience with 4.4mm peripherals/cables. It's NOT like. really, balanced.

Sic... just for convenience. Got fooled.

 

[nick_l44.1]

Please note if you are interested in bluetooth connection.
I found serious problems with the DL200 bluetooth connection related to determining the signal level. The digital signal fed to the DAC can have a level significantly higher than 0dB. When using LDAC with the maximum volume level on a smartphone and DL200, a sine wave of 100Hz -10dB has a level of 3.935Vrms at the TRS output with a maximum output level of 4.95Vrms. That is, if I don’t reduce the bluetooth volume on my smartphone, I get an excess of exactly 8.00 dB and clipping.
I also observed clipping when using AptX, but did not measure the levels. This is probably a firmware issue.

 

[Grooved]

Please note if you are interested in bluetooth connection.
I found serious problems with the DL200 bluetooth connection related to determining the signal level. The digital signal fed to the DAC can have a level significantly higher than 0dB. When using LDAC with the maximum volume level on a smartphone and DL200, a sine wave of 100Hz -10dB has a level of 3.935Vrms at the TRS output with a maximum output level of 4.95Vrms. That is, if I don’t reduce the bluetooth volume on my smartphone, I get an excess of exactly 8.00 dB and clipping.
I also observed clipping when using AptX, but did not measure the levels. This is probably a firmware issue.

Hi would be great to know what the real problem is, because measuring more than 4V on the output of the DAC doesn't mean that there is clipping somewhere in the path.
There are a lot of audio interface that, even if you feed with a -5dB signal, can output 6 or 7V for example, and there is no clipping.

Yes, 4V was like a standard for DACs, but a lot are outputing more now, and I think I saw one measurement from SMSL with this DAC at almost 5V

 

[nick_l44.1]

Hi would be great to know what the real problem is, because measuring more than 4V on the output of the DAC doesn't mean that there is clipping somewhere in the path.
There are a lot of audio interface that, even if you feed with a -5dB signal, can output 6 or 7V for example, and there is no clipping.

Yes, 4V was like a standard for DACs, but a lot are outputing more now, and I think I saw one measurement from SMSL with this DAC at almost 5V

I myself saw 4.95Vrms at the TRS output as I wrote, 3.935Vrms correspond to -10dB. From es9039q2m pins there are direct wires to OPA1612 and to the output; there is no way to change the gain. DL200 allows you to change the volume in LO mode, but the volume does not affect clipping. So it's digital.
You can certainly suspect my Poco X3. But when testing one APTX receiver with this smartphone, no clipping was observed at all upto -0.5dB.

 

[Grooved]

I myself saw 4.95Vrms at the TRS output as I wrote, 3.935Vrms correspond to -10dB. From es9039q2m pins there are direct wires to OPA1612 and to the output; there is no way to change the gain. DL200 allows you to change the volume in LO mode, but the volume does not affect clipping. So it's digital.
You can certainly suspect my Poco X3. But when testing one APTX receiver with this smartphone, no clipping was observed at all upto -0.5dB.

I forgot one thing in the previous post: when you see 4.95Vrms, if you send the same signal but via USB, what do you get?
And to be clear, I was saying that you don't see any voltage, I was saying that the DL200 is supposed to provide 4.95V output at full volume, feeded by a signal of 0dB or almost 0, it's in the SMSL measurement and it doesn't look clipped at all.

 

[nick_l44.1]

I forgot one thing in the previous post: when you see 4.95Vrms, if you send the same signal but via USB, what do you get?
And to be clear, I was saying that you don't see any voltage, I was saying that the DL200 is supposed to provide 4.95V output at full volume, feeded by a signal of 0dB or almost 0, it's in the SMSL measurement and it doesn't look clipped at all.

Perhaps I don't quite understand the question. 4.95V was "measured" by using the same 100Hz -10dB signal via USB and increasing the result by 10dB.
Agreed, there is no clipping using USB, I even posted several measurements above. This clipping issue only applies to Bluetooth connections.

 

[Jorik69]

Hello, gentlemen. My wife recently gave me a Beyerdynamic DT 770 80 ohm and I am very disappointed with my ASUS essence D2X audio card. I started looking for a DAC that would fall within my budget, I chose from Topping DX3 pro+, Fiio k7 and SMSL Dl200. I chose SMSL Dl200. In addition to headphones to the DAC will be connected Arcam A28 in conjunction with Mordaunt-Short MS908. Will I get a qualitative gain? I realized that with the old soundcard I can't hear the attack, for example, when listening to Pink Floyd - Hey you at the drum intro. The recordings I listen to are CD quality. Pardon my English.

 

[nerdemoji]

Hello, gentlemen. My wife recently gave me a Beyerdynamic DT 770 80 ohm and I am very disappointed with my ASUS essence D2X audio card. I started looking for a DAC that would fall within my budget, I chose from Topping DX3 pro+, Fiio k7 and SMSL Dl200. I chose SMSL Dl200. In addition to headphones to the DAC will be connected Arcam A28 in conjunction with Mordaunt-Short MS908. Will I get a qualitative gain? I realized that with the old soundcard I can't hear the attack, for example, when listening to Pink Floyd - Hey you at the drum intro. The recordings I listen to are CD quality. Pardon my English.

Most likely a headphone issue. Those headphones have a fairly significant dip in the presence region 4-5khz, which is usually associated with lacking detail and… well just here is the graphic from Solderdude:

I suggest some form of EQ to fix the tonality of the headphones. Like EqualizerAPO with Peace Interface if you are streaming music from a windows computer.

 

[Jorik69]

Thank you. However, the same goes for my big speaker system, when I bought the amp and speaker bundle from the previous owner it sounded just fine. Don't even ask, I don't remember which device was the source back then)). So I assume the weakest link is my audio card.

 

[nick_l44.1]

Hello, gentlemen. My wife recently gave me a Beyerdynamic DT 770 80 ohm and I am very disappointed with my ASUS essence D2X audio card. I started looking for a DAC that would fall within my budget, I chose from Topping DX3 pro+, Fiio k7 and SMSL Dl200. I chose SMSL Dl200. In addition to headphones to the DAC will be connected Arcam A28 in conjunction with Mordaunt-Short MS908. Will I get a qualitative gain? I realized that with the old soundcard I can't hear the attack, for example, when listening to Pink Floyd - Hey you at the drum intro. The recordings I listen to are CD quality. Pardon my English.

My DT770 250 are sounds with DL200 really good. But I wouldn't call "Hey You" a track with a lot of attack. I tried some percussion test records. All is sharp, clean and bright. Anyway e1da 9038d6k + usb iso overperform this smsl. For example, in "Nobody Home" there is a bass that periodically plays in different channels in a heartbeat rhythm. The DL200 noticeably loses its synthetic timbre.