Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[lateralous]

It's not physically impossible. I did it. The guy was standing right there swapping cables and I started picking out differences in tonality, detail retrieval, how black the background was, the emphasis on different instruments, how defined certain things were, where they stood in the mix, etc. I couldn't see anything except the blacks of my eyelids. Each cable presented music in different ways.

We see this stance repeated ad nauseum, I'm genuinely curious - do you just not believe the brain is involved in interpreting sound pressure that causes our ear drum to vibrate? Do you just not believe in the host of environmental factors that will affect that interpretation?

 

[all24bits]

Did you read about Clever Hans? You never once looked at the guy who was swapping the cables? He could very well have given you a "here comes the fancy cable" cue with subtle body language.

do you understand that i had my eyes shut the entire time? I couldn't see anything at all. There was no body language no cues no nothing. That's why it was a "blind" test.

 

[all24bits]

You made the claim: please provide us with a controlled test or a scientifically replicable explanation otherwise it never happened. And you can save yourself the time posting.

You fly here and set it up then. I could video record a set of tests but then I would be accused of possibly rigging the tests and faking the video. Then how is a peer review going to happen for a video for an event these peer reviewers were never part of ?

I tell people my eyes were closed and they insist my eyes were open and the test was compromised even tho they only found out the test existed 5 min ago and were never present for the test. Lol

 

[AdamG]

Hold on tight. Just jammed 17 pages of “IFI AUDIO ZEN ONE SIGNATURE DAC” Thread comments here. Happy reading!

Let’s all Slow our roll shall we! We are all here to learn and share our knowledge with others. Remember that there are real people with real feelings and problems behind the Avatar and that this is just a Website. Let’s try to be a little more kind and understanding of others. Log off and take a break. Go for a walk or listen to some tunes that will make you feel better. I know I have to on occasion. Just walk away before I say something I will later regret. We all do of course.

 

[voodooless]

Hold on tight. Just jammed 17 pages of “IFI AUDIO ZEN ONE SIGNATURE DAC” Thread comments here. Happy reading!

Please no… make it stop

 

[AdamG]

Please no… make it stop

I know right. It’s like flushing a toilet and it just pushes the mess to a different toilet in another room. Got any ideas? It seems we are stuck in a Groundhogs Day situation. Around and around it goes.

 

[voodooless]

I know right. It’s like flushing a toilet and it just pushes the mess to a different toilet in another room. Got any ideas? It seems we are stuck in a Groundhogs Day situation. Around and around it goes.

 

[fpitas]

It was because the audible difference is not easily explained by masking theory, and because the files sound so different despite having identical power spectra.

Why might that be that interesting? Because questions arise as to some of the conventional teachings of psychoacoustics.

But that's my point: both sound terrible to me.

 

[krabapple]

I know right. It’s like flushing a toilet and it just pushes the mess to a different toilet in another room. Got any ideas? It seems we are stuck in a Groundhogs Day situation. Around and around it goes.

I'm thinking more moles than groundhogs... as in whack-a-


I don't get how someone joins ASR in 2019, lurks for four years, then acts surprised/angry that their common-as-dirt anecdotes about hearing DACs and cables meet with skepticism.


Talk about not reading a room. Or just not reading.

 

[Holmz]

It was because the audible difference is not easily explained by masking theory, and because the files sound so different despite having identical power spectra.

Why might that be that interesting? Because questions arise as to some of the conventional teachings of psychoacoustics.

There is also a difference between time dopaim and impulse response, and frequency domain analysis.

 

[Blumlein 88]

If I did or did not level match wouldn't matter here. It would need to be blind tested (what if people don't have anyone to administer the test?) and THEN peer reviewed to be accepted. I'm actually really confused why people who thinks all DACs sound alike are hanging out discussing DACs that have no differences when they could just buy the top ASR rated DAC and be done with the hardware hobby/discussion for good. We already have enough DACs on the market that operate and sound identical (like, all or most of them). I think manufacturers should shut down and and stop producing electronic waste and trying to scam people.

I used it in real world conditions like real people would. I used it on equipment I am inately familiar and intimate with, with music I am inately familiar and intimate with. I did not set up a laboratory and have someone stand over me and blind test me and then submit my findings to other audiophiles to review whether or not the test was accurate and truthful.

That's ridiculous to expect, especially coming from someone who has a link for "best coffee on the planet" in their signature, which is a factual statement about a completely subjective topic. How are they the world's best Coffee? Have they been blind tested and peer reviewed? What if I like another coffee? Why are you picking and choosing what subjects to be scientific about? You may want to change your signature for that link to "A coffee on the planet" which is a factual statement that can be peer reviewed in a laboratory setting.

I could provide a video recording of all the DACs which would showcase their differences, but then I'm sure either a) people couldn't hear the difference or b) complain the microphone wasn't set up properly or c) insert any other claim about why the video is not accurate.

However, if you'd like to prove that my friend and I could not hear the differences between the DACs, you're welcome to fly here and administer a blind test and then get it peer reviewed by others (on your dime, of course, because I am sure you care more about my experience being 'wrong' than I do proving it 'right').

And to @kemmler3D ---- I never expect to hear differences in DACs. I go in with a blank mind with zero expectations on what to hear. What I hear is what gets presented to me. I do not go into a DAC listening session and expect to hear certain things that magically appear just as I expected to hear them.

If you are going to claim results which can only be confirmed in a laboratory setting (to use your vernacular) then you cannot do it in your kitchen. You need to satisfy the necessary conditions to get useful results. All the whining, excuse making, and rationalization won't turn your uncontrolled listening and anecdotes into high quality information. Sorry the real world is harsh like that sometimes.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Literally fantastic.
Keith

Literally incredible too. Fantastically incredible.

 

[threni]

It would need to be blind tested (what if people don't have anyone to administer the test?)

Then you can't do the test. Doing something properly and getting the correct result is always going to be more difficult than the alternative.

 

[Blumlein 88]

There is also a difference between time dopaim and impulse response, and frequency domain analysis.

I think dopamine may be involved in these uncontrolled listening responses.

 

[Killingbeans]

do you understand that i had my eyes shut the entire time? I couldn't see anything at all. There was no body language no cues no nothing. That's why it was a "blind" test.

Well, I'm stumped. The bending of physics required to make this possible is in the same league as those needed to make a snail beat Usain Bolt in a 100m sprint.

I think I'll just let my bewilderment remain and follow @AdamG247 's advice

Log off and take a break.

 

[JaMaSt]

Let’s all Slow our roll shall we! We are all here to learn and share our knowledge with others.

 

[fpitas]

It is rare around here to simply say, I doubt that very much.

 

[voodooless]

It is rare around here to simply say, I doubt that very much.

Sir, I have no need of that hypothesis.

— Laplace

 

[all24bits]

If you are going to claim results which can only be confirmed in a laboratory setting (to use your vernacular) then you cannot do it in your kitchen. You need to satisfy the necessary conditions to get useful results. All the whining, excuse making, and rationalization won't turn your uncontrolled listening and anecdotes into high quality information. Sorry the real world is harsh like that sometimes.

I'm not whining or excuse making. You're the one screaming about laboratory settings. Not me. I'm happy and comparing and listening and sharing. You're the very upset one screaming that my results (and others') are totally un-factual and scientifically untrue outside of a laboratory setting, a blind test, and a peer review. I'm sitting here right now with both DACs and I can do A/B comparisons all night long and am happy doing so. Again, I don't care if you claim my findings are inaccurate. It doesn't ruin MY enjoyment of said units, nor my belief or experience. You on the other hand are very upset and posting your dissatisfaction that I would share and believe what you consider to be bad information. I don't think you need laboratory settings to hear the difference. I don't have "Golden Ears" nor have I ever proclaimed to. I just simply know what to listen for on specific songs and equipment, and any time I've had people compare equipment, I've shared that knowledge.

Again, anyone here willing to prove me wrong is welcome to fly here, set up a laboratory test, and get a gang of peer reviewers here as well to make it official. Or not. I know if IIII were as invested in the validity of this topic as some of you, I'd definitely try to make a way to do that.

I don't get how someone joins ASR in 2019, lurks for four years, then acts surprised/angry that their common-as-dirt anecdotes about hearing DACs and cables meet with skepticism.

I am not acting angry or surprised. I fully expected the response. However, someone asked the question and I responded with a truthful answer, to the best of my knowledge and ability. I would pose it as other people being angry about my thoughts.

 

[Keith_W]

Again, anyone here willing to prove me wrong is welcome to fly here, set up a laboratory test, and get a gang of peer reviewers here as well to make it official. Or not. I know if IIII were as invested in the validity of this topic as some of you, I'd definitely try to make a way to do that.

Where is "here"? I am sure we could arrange for an ASR member local to you to verify your claims. I for one would be excited to see a blind test showing that DAC's make a difference.