Sennheiser HD650 Review (Headphone)

[staticV3]

Fwiw, my listening volume with the HD600 (1dB/Vrms less sensitive as measured by Amir) is 0dBFS=58mVrms, meaning that with the HD650 I'd need about 51mVrms.
I set up a level-matched A/B comparison with the A2049 and a 9038SG3 capable of 3.4Vrms using an MC103. That means that I could seamlessly switch between the two.
I found no difference whatsoever in dynamics, bass response, or any other aspect of sound quality.

With that in mind, I'd err to the side of caution when people claim that you need an Amp with at least x Vrms to unlock a headphone's true potential, at least when it comes to high impedance ones.

If it's loud enough with your current Amp, then you won't gain anything by getting a more powerful one and running it at 20% or so.

 

[Cylphio]

Fwiw, my listening volume with the HD600 (1dB/Vrms less sensitive as measured by Amir) is 0dBFS=58mVrms, meaning that with the HD650 I'd need about 51mVrms.
I set up a level-matched A/B comparison with the A2049 and a 9038SG3 capable of 3.4Vrms using an MC103. That means that I could seamlessly switch between the two.
I found no difference whatsoever in dynamics, bass response, or any other aspect of sound quality.

Try to listen the Toto's album "the seventh one". Music is not a test tone, and the best albums are recorded very low. Decca Classical Recs are some of the lowest. But yes, maybe you can listen your edm.

 

[staticV3]

Try to listen the Toto's album "the seventh one". Music is not a test tone, and the best albums are recorded very low. Decca Classical Recs are some of the lowest. But yes, maybe you can listen your edm.

I have 25dB of headroom with the Apple dongle and HD600. That should be enough even for HDR classical recordings, don't you think?

 

[Jimbob54]

Try to listen the Toto's album "the seventh one". Music is not a test tone, and the best albums are recorded very low. Decca Classical Recs are some of the lowest. But yes, maybe you can listen your edm.

The best albums are recorded with the dynamic range the artist/ producer wanted. Not necessarily "very low" Very little point having 90% of a track/ album too low to allow for one or two explosive passages.

 

[Cylphio]

I have 25dB of headroom with the Apple dongle and HD600. That should be enough even for HDR classical recordings, don't you think?

I don't. Vintage recordings are always very low. Give me a favor, listen the toto's album and tell me if it sounds loud enough

 

[Jimbob54]

I don't. Vintage recordings are always very low. Give me a favor, listen the toto's album and tell me if it sounds loud enough

Sounds like an edge case to me. If one record in a collection of hundreds requires me to have a more powerful amp, I'm not sure blaming the amp is useful. (also, if he listens on streaming, it may have volume normalising in play anyway so might not be so quiet)

 

[Cylphio]

Sounds like an edge case to me. If one record in a collection of hundreds requires me to have a more powerful amp, I'm not sure blaming the amp is useful. (also, if he listens on streaming, it may have volume normalising in play anyway so might not be so quiet)

C'mon guys, i'm not a dac/amp/cable believer. But the wonderful apple dongle is not really enough. Maybe the s9 is, the ifi go blu, even the radsone hud100. Normalizing the streaming is cutting the dynamics... this is not a challenge. That little white thing struggle Even feeding my hd560s.

 

[Jimbob54]

C'mon guys, i'm not a dac/amp/cable believer. But the wonderful apple dongle is not really enough. Maybe the s9 is, the ifi go blu, even the radsone hud100. Normalizing the streaming is cutting the dynamics... this is not a challenge. That little white thing struggle Even feeding my hd560s.

I'll take your word for it, I have neither the apple dongle nor the desire to listen to Toto.

As others have said, any amp needs to be enough to drive the transducers you have or plan to get, without clipping, at volumes you desire to listen at. But if a £9 1v dongle works for almost all of that users library, it's good enough in my book.

If you're a regular classical listener who likes the peaks to be loud, then maybe the apple plus Senns is not the combo for you. Doesn't mean it doesn't work for many many others

 

[Robbo99999]

absolutely not enough. the dongle give only 1 volt. these need at least 3v to give a satisfying level

To be honest, I think it's absurd to say you need "at least 3v to give satisfying level", that's absurd, you're an edge case. I have an HD600 with EQ with negative preamp to allow for both bass EQ and intersample overs and I use my headphone amp in unity gain from a DAC that supplies a max of 2V, so to say you need 3V for a satisfying level is totally an edge case for people that like to listen super loud and with super amounts of bass EQ & therefore very large negative preamp. I'm only jumping on you in this way because you were rude to Static, but I don't agree with your post anyway.

 

[Robbo99999]

Sounds like an edge case to me. If one record in a collection of hundreds requires me to have a more powerful amp, I'm not sure blaming the amp is useful. (also, if he listens on streaming, it may have volume normalising in play anyway so might not be so quiet)

(Ha, I hadn't even read your post before I used the words "edge case" too!)

 

[staticV3]

I don't. Vintage recordings are always very low. Give me a favor, listen the toto's album and tell me if it sounds loud enough

I used the Windows client of Spotify. Streaming quality was set to Very High, Normalize Volume was set to Normal, which is the default. No EQ or other DSP was used.

EDM: 66.5mVrms=0dBFS
Toto The Seventh One: 135-170mVrms=0dBFS

That means that even with older, more HDR recordings I have more than 15dB of headroom for EQ and whatnot.
And that was with the HD600. The 560S is 2.5dB SPL per Vrms more sensitive, leaving me (theoretically) with more headroom still.

 

[solderdude]

'satisfying level' can be something totally different between 2 people. It is not a measure.

When you occasionally like to turn up the volume very load then you need a bit more than 1V or there will be clipping.
Under 'normal' listening conditions (enjoying music at comfortable levels one can endure for hours) 1V is enough.

Only when you also occasionally want to play at the same level where Amirs earlobes shake (yes, this is really a thing) you won't reach that with 1V.

Of course how much voltage one needs also depends on the sensitivity of the headphone itself, the music you play and the max volume one wants to reach and still not have to worry about the amp running out of voltage.

 

[LaL]

But if a £9 1v dongle works for almost all of that users library,

The full 1 Volt is a freedom for Americans, the Europeans only get ½ a Volt as they can't be trusted.

 

[Jimbob54]

The full 1 Volt is a freedom for Americans, the Europeans only get ½ a Volt as they can't be trusted.

This is very true. Useless!

 

[Cylphio]

The full 1 Volt is a freedom for Americans, the Europeans only get ½ a Volt as they can't be trusted.

This is the explanation. Normalization and eq are offenses fo me.

 

[Sombreuil]

Normalizing the streaming is cutting the dynamics... this is not a challenge. That little white thing struggle Even feeding my hd560s.

Spotify does not reduce the dynamic range.

 

[Bernard23]

Just acquired a brand new pair this morning, and comparing to a recently acquired pair of 560S (I'm new to Senns) and 2 things apparent - you don't need EQ to enjoy these, but if you do they become really enjoyable! I immediately prefer them to the 560S, with both using AutoEQ convoluted DSP in Roon.
Sundaras incoming later, let the silly mind games commence!

 

[bbizzle]

I picked up a pair of these headphones and love their tonality, but agree with amir that they do feel spatial smaller than speakers. I often use plugins like "canopener" to simulate a more open space.

Can anyone recommend a pair of headphones that is tonally similar to the 650s that has a much wider soundstage?

 

[Robbo99999]

I picked up a pair of these headphones and love their tonality, but agree with amir that they do feel spatial smaller than speakers. I often use plugins like "canopener" to simulate a more open space.

Can anyone recommend a pair of headphones that is tonally similar to the 650s that has a much wider soundstage?

Are you gonna be using parametric EQ? If yes, then this could be quite a few different headphones, and my personal recommendation is HD560s in this category. If "no" and you're not using EQ then this is trickier, would require some research.

 

[bbizzle]

Are you gonna be using parametric EQ? If yes, then this could be quite a few different headphones, and my personal recommendation is HD560s in this category. If "no" and you're not using EQ then this is trickier, would require some research.

Yeah I plan to use sonarworks most likely to flatten the response just because it integrates so nicely systemwide for me.