Sennheiser HD600 Review (Headphone)

[Veri]

Maybe the old manufacturer went out of business, or this could be a way to introduce silent revisions to improve performance/durability.

The earpads are sold at €39 RRP though. If they found a more cost efficient supplier with "just about" the same quality, that seems to me the most likely reason.. they likely end up with nice margins on selling these pads. Hope there is no real sound quality impact!

 

[solderdude]

Pricing of the HD650 has remained fairly constant over at least the last 10 years.
The only way for a manufacturer to do this is to cut production costs.

 

[raistlin65]

Has anyone measured Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin pads for HD600?

In case this helps, Dekoni did measure the HD650 with stock versus their fenestrated sheepskin pads. Scroll down the product page for the measurements

https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...kin-ear-pads-for-sennheiser-hd600-headphones/

 

[Robbo99999]

I live in Barcelona, this Thursday i visited fnac a major European retailer, and noticed they suddenly started selling the 600 and 650s, it surprised me that the box for both seemed rather small and light, and it bothered me that the 600 seemed to have the same head band padding as my 660s in the cover art which i thought were supposed to be different, turns out i wasn't miss remembering. I didn't know they had yet another revision in the way but now i can attest they already hit the shelves. I can see why normalising the head band padding can help them with economy of scales, and don't mind, but the earpads my be something else than just saving a buck. Maybe the old manufacturer went out of business, or this could be a way to introduce silent revisions to improve performance/durability.

Yep, really the only thing left to see is truly the effect of the new pad......we won't know this until some measures the new headphone with previous fresh pad vs new pad.

 

[Robbo99999]

In case this helps, Dekoni did measure the HD650 with stock versus their fenestrated sheepskin pads. Scroll down the product page for the measurements

https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...kin-ear-pads-for-sennheiser-hd600-headphones/

That is one super f*cked up measurement, never seen an HD600 measure anything like that even on a flat plate, totally strange and not really worth paying attention to.....but additionally the fenustrated sheepskin earpad has nothing to do with the new pad that's going on the HD600.

 

[PuX]

Pricing of the HD650 has remained fairly constant over at least the last 10 years.
The only way for a manufacturer to do this is to cut production costs.

1 they made back their R&D investment ages ago.
2 this model was profitable even at $200 (HD6XX version they made with Massdrop). keep in mind that version had the original (sort if expensive) box and was made in Ireland.

and now suddenly it's not profitable at $300+ in a cheaper box while being made in Romania?

 

[Robbo99999]

1 they made back their R&D investment ages ago.
2 this model was profitable even at $200 (HD6XX version they made with Massdrop). keep in mind that version had the original (sort if expensive) box and was made in Ireland.

and now suddenly it's not profitable at $300+ in a cheaper box while being made in Romania?

You have to factor in inflation, but I definitely see your point!

 

[HereYaGo]

I'm pretty sure the HD650 price fluctuates drastically on Amazon. Usually 100 to 150 bucks off. I've seen hd 800s price drop dramatically as well.

 

[solderdude]

1 they made back their R&D investment ages ago.
2 this model was profitable even at $200 (HD6XX version they made with Massdrop). keep in mind that version had the original (sort if expensive) box and was made in Ireland.

and now suddenly it's not profitable at $300+ in a cheaper box while being made in Romania?

1: Yes of course it was, nobody thinks it wasn't.
2: The Drop price is based on the guaranteed sale of a minimum amount of headphones so the production line could be run continuously guaranteeing income for Sennheiser as they only had to deal with one distributor and not a distributor and dealers that also need to make a profit.

As has been mentioned. While the MSRP has remained the same they do sell via other outlets for lower prices. This is only possible when production is made cheaper. The fact that the Sennheiser division has been sold recently should tell you something about Sennheiser needing to cut costs.

 

[solderdude]

That is one super f*cked up measurement, never seen an HD600 measure anything like that even on a flat plate, totally strange and not really worth paying attention to.....but additionally the fenustrated sheepskin earpad has nothing to do with the new pad that's going on the HD600.

It is measured on the same rig so relatively relevant and correct measurement for a comparison, just not in an absolute sense. wrong correction is used.
It is Tyll's old HMS HATS they bought by the way when Tyll ran off in his camper pursuing his dream.
Basically the HD600 is 4dB mid-bassier than stock so about 2 dB 'warmer' than a stock HD650.

 

[Robbo99999]

It is measured on the same rig so relatively relevant and correct measurement for a comparison, just not in an absolute sense. wrong correction is used.
It is Tyll's old HMS HATS they bought by the way when Tyll ran off in his camper pursuing his dream.
Basically the HD600 is 4dB mid-bassier than stock so about 2 dB 'warmer' than a stock HD650.

Yes, it's a meaningless measurement in the absolute sense, hence why I pointed it out as being f*cked up and different to any measurement I've ever seen for the HD600 (and even the HD650, given I had misread the graph and thought it was an HD600 measurement), and also it has no relevance because it's a different pad to the one that is gonna be used on the HD600, so overall just meaningless to this thread.

 

[HereYaGo]

You don't need a graph for hd600. They're nothing but mids. No bass no treble. I guess you can find ways to bloat the bass with pads or make them have less nonexistent treble like hd650 lol

 

[solderdude]

it has no relevance because it's a different pad to the one that is gonna be used on the HD600, so overall just meaningless to this thread.

It does show the difference between the stock pads (didn't say in what condition) and the fenestrated pads which answers the question asked.

Has anyone measured Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin pads for HD600?

4dB difference is a lot. It means the HD600 becomes a muddy overly warm headphone when using these pads.
A good warning for folks that want to keep the sound of the HD600 (many do like it and feel it doesn't get better than this) and think more comfy pads will only bring more comfort.
Of course, knowing the difference you can still use these pads and increase comfort but just have to adjust EQ accordingly.

But yes, one should not base their EQ on the plots supplied by Dekoni you would end up with a seriously bass shy and bright (treble +12dB) sound.

 

[BrEpBrEpBrEpBrEp]

But yes, one should not base their EQ on the plots supplied by Dekoni you would end up with a seriously bass shy and bright (treble +12dB) sound.

Actually, you probably could if you used the InnerFidelity target curve from AutoEQ, since they're using Tyll's old HMS.

https://imgur.com/a/ee3AiI2

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...nnerfidelity_harman_over-ear_2018_wo_bass.png
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...nnerfidelity_harman_over-ear_2018_wo_bass.csv

The curve as given has no bass shelf, so you'd have to add about 6 dB bass and tune to preference. Otherwise, it's a calibrated version of the Harman OE 2018 target.

 

[2M2B]

Because those minor differences get blown out of preportion on reddit and elsewhere. I recall reading many opinions from people who have heard both saying the differences dont amount to much. Reddit and the like all form a consensus and people tend to repeat things to be "helpful", even if they have no experience with them. HD6series is basically the gateway for many into hifi....including me.

That because Reddit is super hostile to any flaws on the HD600 line being pointed out. God forbid if someone shows the DT800 600ohm having lower THD under 100Hz than the Senn HD600 line up. But also reminds me of another site that would bash the Senn HD560S despite being a HD600 with much better driver & more subbass?.

 

[MayaTlab]

That because Reddit is super hostile to any flaws on the HD600 line being pointed out. God forbid if someone shows the DT800 600ohm having lower THD under 100Hz than the Senn HD600 line up. But also reminds me of another site that would bash the Senn HD560S despite being a HD600 with much better driver & more subbass?.

Mmmm... it's probably the case for quite a few people but not all. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-at-a-breakthrough-value.943107/post-16300055
I think that these two headphones embody well the limitations of dummy head measurements once two decent headphones are starting to get quite close to each others.
Thankfully most headphones on the market are still crap so they'll keep being very relevant for a long while I feel .

 

[Veri]

That because Reddit is super hostile to any flaws on the HD600 line being pointed out. God forbid if someone shows the DT800 600ohm having lower THD under 100Hz than the Senn HD600 line up. But also reminds me of another site that would bash the Senn HD560S despite being a HD600 with much better driver & more subbass?.

These things are personal. I have no issues with the 'THD under 100Hz'. I think the DT880 is fine, I just vastly prefer the HD600/HD650, instruments sound most 'right' to me on these. People can prefer what they want..

 

[Robbo99999]

It does show the difference between the stock pads (didn't say in what condition) and the fenestrated pads which answers the question asked.


4dB difference is a lot. It means the HD600 becomes a muddy overly warm headphone when using these pads.
A good warning for folks that want to keep the sound of the HD600 (many do like it and feel it doesn't get better than this) and think more comfy pads will only bring more comfort.
Of course, knowing the difference you can still use these pads and increase comfort but just have to adjust EQ accordingly.

But yes, one should not base their EQ on the plots supplied by Dekoni you would end up with a seriously bass shy and bright (treble +12dB) sound.

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed the fact that someone had asked about those Dekoni pads, in that case it's definitely relevant, apologies to @raistlin65

 

[PuX]

The fact that the Sennheiser division has been sold recently should tell you something about Sennheiser needing to cut costs.

yes, they have been losing money for a while.
for me the explanation is not related to HD650 - more likely it has to do with Sennheiser not having successful mass-market models (think Beats alternative).

As has been mentioned. While the MSRP has remained the same they do sell via other outlets for lower prices. This is only possible when production is made cheaper.

since they made their investment back, the profit margin became larger than it was originally. later costs have been rising so the profit margin must have been dropping down slowly.
boxes have been simplified, production moved to Romania?, finish was changed also probably to make production cheaper.
the materials must have been cheap to begin with.
most importantly, the models from the same time period/price range - DT880 (still being made in Germany!) and AKG K701 are much cheaper today.

so in my opinion at least Sennheiser could move the production of old ear pads to some new place without switching to a whole different model with clear plastics. sure the new ear pads could be just as good, but this is a classic headphone, so why change it.

 

[raistlin65]

yes, they have been losing money for a while.
for me the explanation is not related to HD650 - more likely it has to do with Sennheiser not having successful mass-market models (think Beats alternative).

How do we know they've been losing money? Aren't they a private company? Maybe I'm wrong.

Not so much Beats, but the consumer market definitely seems to be switching to Bluetooth headphones. Maybe the Sennheiser family just decided to get out because the headphone market does seems to be in a lot of turmoil right now. And because of the large popularity of headphones, they were able to get out with a really good price, and then they can diversify their assets.