S.M.S.L. SU-1 Dac listening fatigue, headache.

[krabapple]

Indeed, it's a very clean and sparkly DAC and can cause that if your amp/speakers/headphones are already bright or close to it.

The case for content moderation of subjectivist nonsense on ASR grows by the day.

 

[Mr Vinyl]

The case for content moderation of subjectivist nonsense on ASR grows by the day.

A good example here of someone who listens to music with his eyes.

 

[Cbdb2]

A good example here of someone who listens to music with his eyes.

What makes something sound sparkly?

 

[Mr Vinyl]

What makes something sound sparkly?

The question here is not what makes spaghetti A spicier than spaghetti B. If a customer finds spaghetti A too spicy, then that's his preference, or non preference. I have two SU-1s. I knew beforehand that they were what I needed because of my slightly "darker' sounding equipment. The Audio hobby is all about 1) one's sound preferences and 2) how to match all the equipment to achieve that preference/balance. If a person finds the ifi Zen or Topping EII too dark or warm, then an SU-1 may be an option, or vice versa if another person finds the SU-1 too bright and sparkly. Again, it all comes down to our preferences (due to habit, past, room, ears, age, etc). Numbers are good as reference points, but in the real world, things are always different. Try dating a girl (or guy) by looking only at the person's fact sheet. 99% of the time the person will not be what you had in mind.

 

[Sokel]

Listening fatigue is one thing and headache is another.
The former is just a feeling depending by a lot of things the later is physical,can't help it if it happens.

I get the same thing (round headache) but never with DACs and sources in general.
Only with speakers (or speaker-room interaction) and the cause is always elevated 3Khz to 8Khz area and/or thin sounding with not enough midbass.
I have narrowed it down after years and years,I could never stand it.

(I suppose it could happen with some load depended amp as well but never had such an amp)

I would advice you to find a way to measure your room and chain,there's no other way.

 

[Cbdb2]

The question here is not what makes spaghetti A spicier than spaghetti B. If a customer finds spaghetti A too spicy, then that's his preference, or non preference.

So you have no explanation for sparkly and thus no solution. If a customer asks for a spaghetti sauce thats not spicy the cook knows exactly what to do. If you want something less sparkly you just trial and error. And very few here buy subjective opinions at face value, have you ABXed those DACs?

 

[Mr Vinyl]

So you have no explanation for sparkly and thus no solution. If a customer asks for a spaghetti sauce thats not spicy the cook knows exactly what to do. If you want something less sparkly you just trial and error. And very few here buy subjective opinions at face value, have you ABXed those DACs?

AB'ed those DACs??? I have them (sold the ifi though) and AB everything. The OP mentioned that he was going to add a tube buffer. Without knowing what he is going to get, it is not my place to preach to him as to what to do. Have you AB'ed those DACS?

 

[Cbdb2]

AB'ed those DACs??? I have them (sold the ifi though) and AB everything. The OP mentioned that he was going to add a tube buffer. Without knowing what he is going to get, it is not my place to preach to him as to what to do. Have you AB'ed those DACS?

As in blind testing? Im not making any claims.

 

[olds1959special]

AB'ed those DACs??? I have them (sold the ifi though) and AB everything. The OP mentioned that he was going to add a tube buffer. Without knowing what he is going to get, it is not my place to preach to him as to what to do. Have you AB'ed those DACS?

I was considering this:

Baritone - Vacuum Tube Buffer

BARITONE is a vacuum tube buffer designed to warm up your digital audio. The 12AU7 operates at proper high voltage delivering huge headroom and low distortion. Add that tube magic and impart a vintage feel to your tone. Specifications 10Hz to 35kHz bandwidth (-3dB) 15Vrms output voltage (HI)...

hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com

I really want to try one of these, but for now I've decided to live without a tube buffer.

 

[Mr Vinyl]

I was considering this:

Baritone - Vacuum Tube Buffer

BARITONE is a vacuum tube buffer designed to warm up your digital audio. The 12AU7 operates at proper high voltage delivering huge headroom and low distortion. Add that tube magic and impart a vintage feel to your tone. Specifications 10Hz to 35kHz bandwidth (-3dB) 15Vrms output voltage (HI)...

hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com

I really want to try one of these, but for now I've decided to live without a tube buffer.

Wow. Looks delicious. But at that price, maybe consider changing DACs and avoid having another item in the signal path? What source is going into your SU-1, and where is the SU-1 going out to , if I may ask?

 

[olds1959special]

Wow. Looks delicious. But at that price, maybe consider changing DACs and avoid having another item in the signal path? What source is going into your SU-1, and where is the SU-1 going out to , if I may ask?

I have it plugged into a Fosi Audio BT20A Pro rolled with MUSE02 op-amps and use the upgraded PSU. My speakers are ELAC Debut 2.0 b6.2 with all the grills removed. I don't want to add any unnecessary components like a tube buffer.

I thought maybe adding a subwoofer would round out the sound a bit.

 

[Mr Vinyl]

I have it plugged into a Fosi Audio BT20A Pro rolled with MUSE02 op-amps and use the upgraded PSU. My speakers are ELAC Debut 2.0 b6.2 with all the grills removed. I don't want to add any unnecessary components like a tube buffer.

I thought maybe adding a subwoofer would round out the sound a bit.

Well, the sub will balance things out, but it won't reduce the upper end energy. Try less toe-in with the speakers (if they are toed-in presently) and put the grills back on (it may or may not make a difference depending on the grills). Short of room treatment, you can also add some plush furniture or move the speakers away from the windows as glass reflect mid and high frequencies (unless you have thick curtains over them). At least these are free. If that doesn't work, if possible, try testing out new components within the context of your system ( Hopefully, you're not using the Elacs as nearfields. I'm not sure they were conceived for that). Being a longtime customer, my hifi store lets me bring equipment home for testing over the weekends (back in the day, when there were more of such stores, they would do that more often). At least Amazon has a return policy, but don't abuse it or they'll start charging you for delivery.

 

[olds1959special]

Well, the sub will balance things out, but it won't reduce the upper end energy. Try less toe-in with the speakers (if they are toed-in presently) and put the grills back on (it may or may not make a difference depending on the grills). Short of room treatment, you can also add some plush furniture or move the speakers away from the windows as glass reflect mid and high frequencies (unless you have thick curtains over them). At least these are free. If that doesn't work, if possible, try testing out new components within the context of your system ( Hopefully, you're not using the Elacs as nearfields. I'm not sure they were conceived for that). Being a longtime customer, my hifi store lets me bring equipment home for testing over the weekends (back in the day, when there were more of such stores, they would do that more often). At least Amazon has a return policy, but don't abuse it or they'll start charging you for delivery.

I am using them as nearfields, and I'll be getting an ELAC SUB1010 to try. I've found that by using copper interconnects, (the ones I'm using are made by Straight Wire,) the treble is tamed a bit and everything is good. I'm curious how the sound will change once the sub is in. I'm guessing I'll set the sub frequency to around 50-55 Hz? The speakers go down to 44 Hz but there is a roll-off.

 

[Mr Vinyl]

I am using them as nearfields, and I'll be getting an ELAC SUB1010 to try. I've found that by using copper interconnects, (the ones I'm using are made by Straight Wire,) the treble is tamed a bit and everything is good. I'm curious how the sound will change once the sub is in. I'm guessing I'll set the sub frequency to around 50-55 Hz? The speakers go down to 44 Hz but there is a roll-off.

It depends where the 44Kz +- is at. Some manufacturers use those numbers without showing whether it's at -3db or -20db! That said, it also depends on how low your sub can go. I usually set mine at its lowest point (20Hz on mine) and increase the volume until I start hearing something. I back off the moment I hear something, however minute. The thing to remember is that a roll-off is always gradual, and the sub works in the same way, but inverted. You wouldn't want overlapping frequencies or it will sound boomy. Use your ears and experiment and have fun!

 

[olds1959special]

It depends where the 44Kz +- is at. Some manufacturers use those numbers without showing whether it's at -3db or -20db! That said, it also depends on how low your sub can go. I usually set mine at its lowest point (20Hz on mine) and increase the volume until I start hearing something. I back off the moment I hear something, however minute. The thing to remember is that a roll-off is always gradual, and the sub works in the same way, but inverted. You wouldn't want overlapping frequencies or it will sound boomy. Use your ears and experiment and have fun!

These settings seem to work best. The sub is placed turned inward toward me underneath the left speaker. 60Hz and midway on the volume knob. Phase flipped.

 

[Mr Vinyl]

These settings seem to work best. The sub is placed turned inward toward me underneath the left speaker. 60Hz and midway on the volume knob. Phase flipped.

Nice. Congratulations on your purchase! Indeed, subwoofers are tricky to set up. Just leave it at your present settings for a while to get used to the sound. If you don't feel the need to tweak anything after a week or two, then you're ok. Even if you do, that's fine too. It took me forever to set up mine (livingroom listening), and every once in a while I'll do a check by increasing or decreasing the settings, only to go back to the initial ones. This is how I know I found the sweet spot for my environment.