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Review and Measurements of Topping DX3Pro DAC and Headphone Amp

Yuno

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I am looking to get an JDS atom but I dont want to bother with unplugging my headphones for my powered monitors to work, so Ill need an dac that has multiple outputs. DX7s might be the solution but it seems somewhat overkill to both have the atom and the DX7s

I wouldn't really say that DX7s is an overkill, if you are using actual powered studio monitors with balanced inputs, then having balanced outputs is very important.
If you still want something cheaper I would just recommend to wait a bit. I'm pretty sure that sooner or later topping will fix all issues with dx3 and start shipping units that are more reliable. Aune x1s is another unit with line out and headphone output, but you would need to have passive preamp with it, and it's hardly as convenient as units such as dx3.
 

chrisliuboy

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I was almost convinced on purchasing this unit but then stumbled on this review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/topping-dx3-pro.23320/reviews
which states that the line out for dac only is underwhelming when used with speakers. Anyone who can confirm this?
Well, finally some review said it! I never enjoyed DX3 in HP out for the same reason: low dynamic and impact IMHO. That's why it's a paperweight for me now.
 

Veri

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Well, finally some review said it! I never enjoyed DX3 in HP out for the same reason: low dynamic and impact IMHO. That's why it's a paperweight for me now.
The review specifically states that he found line out lacking and that HP out is fine so no, he is not in agreement with you lol. "HP out, the sound is really good." <--

Personally I noticed zero difference between line/HP out on my unit, but used HP out anyway because it measures slightly better in amirs review.
 

chrisliuboy

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The review specifically states that he found line out lacking and that HP out is fine so no, he is not in agreement with you lol. "HP out, the sound is really good." <--

Personally I noticed zero difference between line/HP out on my unit, but used HP out anyway because it measures slightly better in amirs review.
I know, that's why I said "for the same reason". :) Well, that's it.
 

777

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I was almost convinced on purchasing this unit but then stumbled on this review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/topping-dx3-pro.23320/reviews
which states that the line out for dac only is underwhelming when used with speakers. Anyone who can confirm this?

Yes, this is the truth. The sound of the Line-out is too soft, without impact. Probably the negative feedback 1kohm resistor is too low and the 1nF capacitor around it is too big. TPS54331 audio band output impedance is too high in ECO mode and the bypass capacitors are too small and not too good for a two AK4493. OPA1612 open loop gain output impedance at low frequency is too big and the phase is not benign. All that factors give that nasty sound.

I was removed TPS54331 with liniar power supply and rise the NF resistor at 2kohm(and the rest of the resistors at the proper values). I was changing the NF capacitors from 1nF to 470pF. The sound is very good now.
 

finneybear

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I doubt that those AVX tan cap are solid polymer as sold polymer tan are much more expensive than the normal tan and unlikely to be use in such a low cost dac. Another hint is the yellow tan mark is 107A meaning 100uf 10v. If polymer tan, only 6.3V is required instead of twice the voltage rating required for normal tantalum. If those AVX are really solid polymer, there is no need to replace them with KoCap which is also a polymer cap.

I might replace those yellow AVX tan with polymer tan with a higher value solid polymer tan (220uf 6.3V B case size and 100uf 6.3V 1210 size).
I am looking at mouser parts "T520C227M006ATE015" and "581-TCJB107M006R0040"

It seems that I have confused you. Those caps are not original. I replaced them with new parts from mouser.com.
Solid polymer caps can have yellow color ones.

capp.JPG
 

chrisliuboy

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Yes, this is the truth. The sound of the Line-out is too soft, without impact. Probably the negative feedback 1kohm resistor is too low and the 1nF capacitor around it is too big. TPS54331 audio band output impedance is too high in ECO mode and the bypass capacitors are too small and not too good for a two AK4493. OPA1612 open loop gain output impedance at low frequency is too big and the phase is not benign. All that factors give that nasty sound.

I was removed TPS54331 with liniar power supply and rise the NF resistor at 2kohm(and the rest of the resistors at the proper values). I was changing the NF capacitors from 1nF to 470pF. The sound is very good now.
Thanks you, you made my case. This definitely not looks like a simple modification to me considering my skill level. :p Will keep it in the box, maybe one of my friends may need it in the future.
 

finneybear

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Much better how? It really feels like this ESS interface is just the newest flavor of the month, after savitech/c-media/xmos/now ess usb chip originally made for sound bar application...

It's just DDC, can't imagine it makes a big difference on analog output.

A lot of myths around the USB interface. Thought this can be the good opportunity to clarify some technical issues around the USB interface.

First of all, at the physical layer, i.e. the cable transmission, USB is not error free. It has an error rate around 10 to the negative 12. This is not a problem for keyboard or mouse input yet for audio data streaming, it is a concern. You need to add CRC check sum, etc, along with the digital data to verify the correctness at the recipient end.

Roughly USB transmits data in either synchronous or asynchronous mode. For audio streaming, synchronous mode isnt good because it has problems such as jitter, etc. It also eats up a lot of CPU time. Asynchronous mode is what mostly used today. Audio data are sent as packet bursts in asynchronous mode. Depends on whether you want to do error checking or not, if you want to ensure an error free transmission, the PC side will have to calculate the CRC code based on the audio data then send out the data along with the CRC. On the receiver side, the data will have to be verified against the CRC code. If there's any mismatch, the receiver will ask the PC to resend the data packet. All of those activities will have to be done within a fixed time window due to the nature of audio playback. This requirement call for certain engineering solutions.

The next step is to convert those PCM or DSD audio data packets into I2S signals to drive the DAC. The multi-bit audio datum will have be converted to bit stream through a device called "serdes".

Since the audio data packets is coming in as bursts, and the I2S stream to DAC is continuously clocking, a FIFO is needed to regulate the data conversion flow. This is like what you see in a car wash station. Each car is washed at fixed pace yet new cars may come in at any time, at irregular intervals. You need to provide enough waiting area for incoming cars to park so the car washing process can progress at a steady rate.

XMOS, Amanero, etc, they are actually just generic processors. Take XMOS as an example, the new one has 8 or more small cores with a dedicated USB interface. The make may boast the processing power as 4000MIPS yet this is the total processing power of multiple cores. The computation capability of each core is much less than that.

XMOS does have a dedicated USB yet this interface does not support any CRC checking, etc. The CRC error checking will have to be done by a core. The core also has to handle the data resend, etc. Yep, the core may not have enough processing power to handle the data transmission job on time. Cheap XMOS chip only has 128K memory on board. This memory has to used for data processing as well as the FIFO for incoming audio data. This means the size of the FIFO is very limited.

Now, to convert multi-bit audio data packet to I2S serial data, yep, it has to be done by a core again. For DSD512, the I2S is clocking at 22.8MHz or higher, depends on the DAC design, another challenge to the core. Even worse, this process may introduce new jitters to I2S, and I have found, this is the main reason why XMOS will sound differently from Amanero and others.

If you pay attention to Amir's tests, you will see in devices with bad USB interface, the HF regions have a lot of spikes and noises. This is why.

For the new ESS chip, it is a true USB interface design, not a generic processor. It has a dedicated USB interface which does CRC error checking, for instance, in hardware directly. It uses outboard memory as FIFO so you can have a FIFO as large as you want it to. The audio data to I2S conversion is done through a real serdes which has less extra jitter.

In chip industry, this is a very simple design. It's just the market is so small, nobody was interested in creating such a dedicated audio USB interface device then finally ESS decided to do it.

With the new ESS interface, I can hear the background is darker, the roughness on top is gone, the stage is wider, etc, typical improvement with a lower jitter level.

Sure, the PC side, the driver side has entirely another set of stories yet I have to stop here before making the post too long.
 

finneybear

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Yes, this is the truth. The sound of the Line-out is too soft, without impact. Probably the negative feedback 1kohm resistor is too low and the 1nF capacitor around it is too big. TPS54331 audio band output impedance is too high in ECO mode and the bypass capacitors are too small and not too good for a two AK4493. OPA1612 open loop gain output impedance at low frequency is too big and the phase is not benign. All that factors give that nasty sound.

I was removed TPS54331 with liniar power supply and rise the NF resistor at 2kohm(and the rest of the resistors at the proper values). I was changing the NF capacitors from 1nF to 470pF. The sound is very good now.

2K ohm? Will it be too much gain? The input resister is 1.43K in parallel so the real input is 715ohm. 2K / 715 is almost 3X gain. Have you checked the HP to see whether it is OK?
 

simonchretien

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What kind of powered speakers did you people try w the dx3 line out?
Cause I can still cancel my PSB alpha ps1 drop, I was going to line out to them for the office.
Or I guess I could just output from the PC directly and leave the dx3 for headphones only.
I really doubt its gonna sound bad... especially since a lot of the comments these days are along the lines of "I changed a capacitor and I can now ear the subliminal messages in most songs" ;)
 

splkn

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Yes, this is the truth. The sound of the Line-out is too soft, without impact. Probably the negative feedback 1kohm resistor is too low and the 1nF capacitor around it is too big. TPS54331 audio band output impedance is too high in ECO mode and the bypass capacitors are too small and not too good for a two AK4493. OPA1612 open loop gain output impedance at low frequency is too big and the phase is not benign. All that factors give that nasty sound.

I was removed TPS54331 with liniar power supply and rise the NF resistor at 2kohm(and the rest of the resistors at the proper values). I was changing the NF capacitors from 1nF to 470pF. The sound is very good now.
How did you do linear power + -10v? Or did you connect an external power supply? Is it possible to show a photo?
 
OP
amirm

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finneybear

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What kind of powered speakers did you people try w the dx3 line out?
Cause I can still cancel my PSB alpha ps1 drop, I was going to line out to them for the office.
Or I guess I could just output from the PC directly and leave the dx3 for headphones only.
I really doubt its gonna sound bad... especially since a lot of the comments these days are along the lines of "I changed a capacitor and I can now ear the subliminal messages in most songs" ;)

I have tried JBL LSR305 and ADAM F5. Both are near field monitors. DX3 sounds OK on them. The top is nice and clear yet edgy. Mid-bass lacking.
 

Veri

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With the new ESS interface, I can hear the background is darker, the roughness on top is gone, the stage is wider, etc, typical improvement with a lower jitter level.
Sure, the PC side, the driver side has entirely another set of stories yet I have to stop here before making the post too long.

Well, amir has tested a lot of xmos already. Probably most of all dacs tested are xmos. Many have excellent jitter spectra, of course there are some total failures as well.

So when done right, xmos seems fine ? I mean I'm not really believing the whole -150dB jitter = excellent sound thing either, I cannot believe we mere humans can pick up on these kind of insanely low losses of rhythm.... and background being dark has more to do with power filtering or lack of it, no?

But yes let's not go too far off-topic.
 

finneybear

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Well, amir has tested a lot of xmos already. Probably most of all dacs tested are xmos. Many have excellent jitter spectra, of course there are some total failures as well.

So when done right, xmos seems fine ? I mean I'm not really believing the whole -150dB jitter = excellent sound thing either, I cannot believe we mere humans can pick up on these kind of insanely low losses of rhythm.... and background being dark has more to do with power filtering or lack of it, no?

But yes let's not go too far off-topic.

Let's face it. The AP jitter test is a decent indicator yet not quite a full jitter test. You need machines like Wavecrest for that yet the company is long gone.

XMOS is generally OK for 44.1K data. Amanero is a bit better than the old XMOS. The C-media has more problems. Pay attention to the DAC which uses C-media.

The ESS interface test was done under a controlled setup. That interface actually is very sensitive to power, something I plan to fix.
 

Veri

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Let's face it. The AP jitter test is a decent indicator yet not quite a full jitter test. You need machines like Wavecrest for that yet the company is long gone.

XMOS is generally OK for 44.1K data. Amanero is a bit better than the old XMOS. The C-media has more problems. Pay attention to the DAC which uses C-media.

The ESS interface test was done under a controlled setup. That interface actually is very sensitive to power, something I plan to fix.
I can understand that better / specifically developed interface = better. But honestly latest thesyscon drivers give me under 3ms of input lag, via USB! Years ago this would be unheard of. USB seems fine to me, xmos seems fine to me.

Maybe I'm in the minority here. OR you're just way too perfectionist ;)
 

777

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2K ohm? Will it be too much gain? The input resister is 1.43K in parallel so the real input is 715ohm. 2K / 715 is almost 3X gain. Have you checked the HP to see whether it is OK?

The gain is almost the same because all the resistors was modified.
 

777

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How did you do linear power + -10v? Or did you connect an external power supply? Is it possible to show a photo?

Yes, I have external linear power supply. I will most likely put the Dx3Pro in another case. I'll also post pictures next days.
 

aka_Z

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The gain is almost the same because all the resistors was modified.

Could you please provide the whole specification/schematic (whatever is easier to you and good enough for understanding) what did you change? So some of us may do the same.
 
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