Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC

[Vosya]

Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

Look at the lines with the tag "* Fix:" in the attached file. After that, you can decide whether something was broken or not.

 

[zephyros]

Look at the lines with the tag "* Fix:" in the attached file. After that, you can decide whether something was broken or not.

It's always safe to assume that a software has bugs, and it isn't possible to log them all.
Personally, my initial test with the 4.43 version is relatively bug-free, I tried using DSD native with the guide here from @solderdude blog: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.co...-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/
and I haven't heard any noise.

 

[Vosya]

It's always safe to assume that a software has bugs, and it isn't possible to log them all.

In addition to fixing bugs, the newer versions of the driver announces many improvements, some of which seems to me very attractive. And extremely strange for me is the refusal of some to try it. Since the operation of installing and uninstalling new ones and returning to the old ones, if necessary, take several minutes, even without rebooting Windows.

 

[Krunok]

Look at the lines with the tag "* Fix:" in the attached file. After that, you can decide whether something was broken or not.

Well, I'm coming from software industry and as a general rule I can advise not to apply a fix for a problem that doesn't manifest to you. Unless of course advised to applly it by the software manufacturer. With drivers, generally speaking the rule is "the newer the better", but that rule also doesn't apply for a temporary fixes for the problems that doesn't manifest in your environment.

 

[Vosya]

doesn't apply for a temporary fixes for the problems that doesn't manifest in your environment.

In my environment there are no problems with both versions of the driver. However, when the settings are set to minimum latency, 4.43 sounds in my setup much cleaner than 4.14. Аnd for me it makes no difference whether this was the result of correcting the error, or an improvement from the new functionality. The important thing is that I do not freeze on the current driver version, as you recommend, but I try new alternatives.

 

[amirm]

In my environment there are no problems with both versions of the driver. However, when the settings are set to minimum latency, 4.43 sounds in my setup much cleaner than 4.14. Аnd for me it makes no difference whether this was the result of correcting the error, or an improvement from the new functionality. The important thing is that I do not freeze on the current driver version, as you recommend, but I try new alternatives.

I once bricked a $15,000 processor (Tact TCS) by upgrading the firmware. Contacted the company and they said to get lost as that unit is no longer supported. And that I had no business downloading the new firmware to it without their blessing! That was so even though they offered the new firmware on their website.

 

[nefilim]

I once bricked a $15,000 processor (Tact TCS) by upgrading the firmware. Contacted the company and they said to get lost as that unit is no longer supported. And that I had no business downloading the new firmware to it without their blessing! That was so even though they offered the new firmware on their website.

!!! no wonder they went out of business....

 

[Vosya]

I once bricked a $15,000 processor (Tact TCS) by upgrading the firmware.

Seriously, we both understand that the firmware and driver are two different things in terms of the degree of potential danger for hardware.

 

[Krunok]

In my environment there are no problems with both versions of the driver. However, when the settings are set to minimum latency, 4.43 sounds in my setup much cleaner than 4.14. Аnd for me it makes no difference whether this was the result of correcting the error, or an improvement from the new functionality. The important thing is that I do not freeze on the current driver version, as you recommend, but I try new alternatives.

FrankIy, when you listen to the music I see no reason to push settings to the minimum latency as you are only asking your computer and the driver to work harder without any need for that. So, if v4.14 is working stable if I were you I would simply let it be. Think of it this way: if everything is working fine for you with the current firmware the only change you can get with the new firmware is that it works worse.

 

[Krunok]

Seriously, we both understand that the firmware and driver are two different things in terms of the degree of potential danger for hardware.

Of course @amirm understands that, he has spent many years in the sofwtare industry, but the users who upgrade drivers without any need will also upgrade the firmware without any need.

 

[Vosya]

when you listen to the music I see no reason to push settings to the minimum latency

The thesis is not mine, but I join: "if you do not hear the difference when installing the minimum latency - your setup is not good enough"

 

[Krunok]

The thesis is not mine, but I join: "if you do not hear the difference when installing the minimum latency - your setup is not good enough"

And how exactly are you supposed to hear the difference in latency? When you are watching video things are pretty simple as the lisync problem improves but what difference is latency supposed to bring when listening to music?

 

[Vosya]

but the users who upgrade drivers without any need will also upgrade the firmware without any need.

This law of nature you discovered on the basis of the message amirm?

 

[Krunok]

This law of nature you discovered on the basis of the message amirm?

This law of nature I discovered working for 30 years in the software industry myself.

 

[Vosya]

And how exactly are you supposed to hear the difference in latency?

I hate audiophile vocabulary, even in Russian, a native language for me. And I'm not going to look for analogues in English. I will say one thing: the smaller the latency, the better reproduced the smallest details of the sound stage (reverb, reflection, etc.), and this is noted by many.

 

[kcarch]

D50 is on massdrop again for $199
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/topping-d50-dac

 

[Vosya]

This law of nature I discovered working for 30 years in the software industry myself.

Your global generalizations may have value for all of humanity. But we are in the forum where we discuss Topping D50, with the only 1 firmware available. Аll need to be scared, and do not follow the recommendation: "This firmware improves USB anti-interference performance, we recommended D50 users to upgrade."?

 

[Krunok]

I will say one thing: the smaller the latency, the better reproduced the smallest details of the sound stage (reverb, reflection, etc.), and this is noted by many.

By definition latency has no influnece on the sound quality, it only measures how much the sound reproduction is delayed.

Btw, for your information, "this is noted by many" or "argumentum ad populum", as it was originally called in Latin, is actually considered a false argument. For more details pls look here: https://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/popular.html

 

[Krunok]

Your global generalizations may have value for all of humanity. But we are in the forum where we discuss Topping D50, with the only 1 firmware available. Аll need to be scared, and do not follow the recommendation: "This firmware improves USB anti-interference performance, we recommended D50 users to upgrade."?

Of course the Topping says that. They, and many other companies, probably say that same thing for every new version of the firmware. But my friendly advice to you, and to the other forum members as well, still is: "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". In other words, if everything is working well for you with the current version of the driver I advise you not to touch it. When, and if, it starts to show some probems, then, and only then, you can start considering to which newer vesion to upgrade, but as long as everything is working well for you, just leave it.

In my 30+ years of working experience in software industry I like to believe I have learned some tricks of the trade of the software industry but if you think you know better and you feel the need to upgrade to the newest possible version of the software each and every time one is available than you should of course do just that.

 

[amirm]

We probably don't want to have a fight over this. There are times where there is value to upgrades, and sometimes they create grief. If there is a clear and stable way to undo something, then there is no harm in trying other than the work involved. If the undo doesn't exist, then it requires caution.