Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC

[amirm]

With a floating ground, the data line cannot be interpreted correctly. You can get lucky where it works for a while and then the ground potential increases and stops working.

One hack people use is to have the ground connected for the initial handshake when you plug it in, then disconnect it. Apparently the hot-plug negotiation is most apt to fail.

 

[skrekk]

With a floating ground, the data line cannot be interpreted correctly. You can get lucky where it works for a while and then the ground potential increases and stops working.

Yeah, without a ground to the host I'd be worried about the common mode voltage exceeding the rating of the differential input. I don't know if they run that straight to the XMOS chip or through a buffer but it's not good news either way. It will only appear to work OK at first because it's a differential signal.

The lack of a ground also potentially leaves the entire device more susceptible to static discharge, depending on what he's got the output connected to.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

With a floating ground, the data line cannot be interpreted correctly. You can get lucky where it works for a while and then the ground potential increases and stops working.

One hack people use is to have the ground connected for the initial handshake when you plug it in, then disconnect it. Apparently the hot-plug negotiation is most apt to fail.

Thanks, Amir. It was too good to be true after all, back to the drawing board.

 

[mindbomb]

One thing I'm not clear on: is the d50 more susceptible to ground loops than other dacs?

 

[zephyros]

So taping the ground connection might not be a good idea after all. AFAIK there are a few ground loop solution out there:
iFi iDenfender: https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-idefender3-0/
They claim it breaks ground connection while allowing handshake to go through (not sure how much I can trust their flowery marketing word though). The price is 50$ (1/5th of the D50, but if it does what they claim and solves the problem I suppose it's worth it)
iFi iGalvanic: https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-igalvanic3-0/
As the name suggest, it provide galvanic isolation, which should deal with ground loop. The price is on the expensive side though (250$).
iFi GroundHog: https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-groundhog/
Not sure what this does, can someone explain it to me? (50$)
Hifime USB isolator: https://hifimediy.com/high-speed-usb-isolator-480Mbps
They should do the same job as the iGalvanic. However there are some catches: version 1 only support 24/96 and 150mA current, and the above support 24/192 with 400mA current (which is all many will ever need I think). The second version is on pre-order though, so it might take sometimes to get. (29$ and 89$ respectively)

 

[bbbbbbbb]

how is the schiit wyrd, to add to the possible solutions listed above? I have pretty bad USB issues on my computer

 

[lotse888]

Update on this - out of the blue, the connection with the power/groundless USB cable stopped working. Checked the cable, data +/- are still intact, so I am back to the stock Topping cable, and a ground loop. The issue is not the cable - covering up the ground pin on the Topping cable yields the same result, Windows is no longer recognizes the DAC.

DAC worked fine without power and ground for about a week, what would cause the handshake to fail after it had worked before? Going to reach out to Topping and see if they have any suggestions.

Sorry to hear about that. Have you tried to restart the set up:
Switch off everything (computer and DAC), unplug the cable at both ends, plug the cable at both ends, switch on the DAC, then switch on the computer.

This might or might not work for you. But it is easy enough to try.

Regards,

 

[L0rdGwyn]

So taping the ground connection might not be a good idea after all. AFAIK there are a few ground loop solution out there:
iFi iDenfender: https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-idefender3-0/
They claim it breaks ground connection while allowing handshake to go through (not sure how much I can trust their flowery marketing word though). The price is 50$ (1/5th of the D50, but if it does what they claim and solves the problem I suppose it's worth it)
iFi iGalvanic: https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-igalvanic3-0/
As the name suggest, it provide galvanic isolation, which should deal with ground loop. The price is on the expensive side though (250$).
iFi GroundHog: https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-groundhog/
Not sure what this does, can someone explain it to me? (50$)
Hifime USB isolator: https://hifimediy.com/high-speed-usb-isolator-480Mbps
They should do the same job as the iGalvanic. However there are some catches: version 1 only support 24/96 and 150mA current, and the above support 24/192 with 400mA current (which is all many will ever need I think). The second version is on pre-order though, so it might take sometimes to get. (29$ and 89$ respectively)

Thanks for the list! Maybe I will give the iDefender a shot after doing some research.

Sorry to hear about that. Have you tried to restart the set up:
Switch off everything (computer and DAC), unplug the cable at both ends, plug the cable at both ends, switch on the DAC, then switch on the computer.

This might or might not work for you. But it is easy enough to try.

Regards,

And yes, I have tried everything I can, Windows simply isn't recognizing the DAC when the ground lead is removed.

 

[stalkehard]

[QUOTE = "amirm, post: 74584, участник: 2"] Добро пожаловать на форум. Вы должны использовать XLR для XLR, потому что он избегает наземных петель (шум / шум). Он также позволяет использовать более длинные кабели для активных динамиков, таких как LSR305. Я использую ту же комбинацию с LSR305, и это звучит здорово! [/ QUOTE]
То есть, в моем случае будет лучше, если я заплачу 550 долларов за dx7s, чем 250 долларов за d50? Стоит ли переплачивать за xlr? Будет ли разница в звуке с rca, если динамики находятся на расстоянии полутора метров друг от друга?
Спасибо.

 

[Veri]

[QUOTE = "amirm, post: 74584, участник: 2"] Добро пожаловать на форум. Вы должны использовать XLR для XLR, потому что он избегает наземных петель (шум / шум). Он также позволяет использовать более длинные кабели для активных динамиков, таких как LSR305. Я использую ту же комбинацию с LSR305, и это звучит здорово! [/ QUOTE]
То есть, в моем случае будет лучше, если я заплачу 550 долларов за dx7s, чем 250 долларов за d50? Стоит ли переплачивать за xlr? Будет ли разница в звуке с rca, если динамики находятся на расстоянии полутора метров друг от друга?
Спасибо.

Translation:
That is, in my case, will it be better if I pay 550 dollars for dx7s, than 250 dollars for d50? Is it worth overpaying for xlr? Will there be a difference in sound with rca, if the speakers are a distance of one and a half meters from each other?
Thank you.

 

[Krunok]

@Veri , you're better than Google Translate!

P.S in my opinion it is cheaper to buy good RCA cables and the results will be equally good

 

[Toku]

About the noise of D50 I informed on this forum, I received a reply e-mail from Topping.
It seems that I could recognize part of the noise I said. They are going to investigate further.
I would also need to provide them with more detailed data.
I am very grateful for the response of Topping this time.

The D50 DX 7s I bought is currently playing using ASIO (Dop mode).
It is a really good sound.

 

[Krunok]

About the noise of D50 I informed on this forum, I received a reply e-mail from Topping.
It seems that I could recognize part of the noise I said. They are going to investigate further.
I would also need to provide them with more detailed data.
I am very grateful for the response of Topping this time.

The D50 DX 7s I bought is currently playing using ASIO (Dop mode).
It is a really good sound.

Nice to hear they are cooperating with you.

I didn't understand what did you mean with this, so if you can please rephrase it: "It seems that I could recognize part of the noise I said."?

Btw, why is it so important to you to play DSD in Native mode and not in DoP?

 

[Toku]

Nice to hear they are cooperating with you.

I didn't understand what did you mean with this, so if you can please rephrase it: "It seems that I could recognize part of the noise I said."?

Btw, why is it so important to you to play DSD in Native mode and not in DoP?

I am not particular about DSD (native). I think that I do not feel the difference in sound quality even when playing with DSD (Dop).
But guarantee that the specification of the product can be played with DSD (Native).
I currently retire from work, but in the past I was developing a communication device at big company.
So I think that it is important to ensure that the specifications of the product are guaranteed.
Topping is a company that manufactures great products.
Is my way of thinking strange?

 

[Veri]

No, if you find a bug in driver or implementation, it's good to speak up and hopefully have manufacturer recognize/reproduce, and fix it. Thank you, @Toku

 

[Krunok]

I am not particular about DSD (native). I think that I do not feel the difference in sound quality even when playing with DSD (Dop).
But guarantee that the specification of the product can be played with DSD (Native).
I currently retire from work, but in the past I was developing a communication device at big company.
So I think that it is important to ensure that the specifications of the product are guaranteed.
Topping is a company that manufactures great products.
Is my way of thinking strange?

Hahaha - no it is not strange, at least not to me!

When I receive my D10 in a few weeks I will also put an effort to put DSD to work in Native and in DoP mode although I have only 5 SACD recordings which also sound fine now when I have them converted to PCM on the fly by foobar, as my current DAC cannot decode DSD.

In the meantime I can assure you that Native DSD and DoP sound exactly the same. As you are a communication device developer you will easily understand how DoP works:

DSD is a 1 bit stream. In order to transport DSD over PCM (hence the DoP acronym) you take 16 adjacent 1-bit samples from a DSD stream and pack them into the lower 16 bits of a 24/176.4 PCM data stream. In top 8 bits you put a special marker so DAC can tell it is a DoP and not PCM stream. As you managed to pack DSD into PCM stream you can no transport it as it is a normal PCM stream over USB, SPDIF, AES etc. Once DAC recognises the marker in upper 8 bits it knows it is receiving a DoP and not PCM so it starts recreating the original DSD 1 bit stream and it does that without any losses. That is why DoP sounds exactly the same as will DSD Native once you get it to work.

 

[Krunok]

[QUOTE = "amirm, post: 74584, участник: 2"] Добро пожаловать на форум. Вы должны использовать XLR для XLR, потому что он избегает наземных петель (шум / шум). Он также позволяет использовать более длинные кабели для активных динамиков, таких как LSR305. Я использую ту же комбинацию с LSR305, и это звучит здорово! [/ QUOTE]
То есть, в моем случае будет лучше, если я заплачу 550 долларов за dx7s, чем 250 долларов за d50? Стоит ли переплачивать за xlr? Будет ли разница в звуке с rca, если динамики находятся на расстоянии полутора метров друг от друга?
Спасибо.

По моему, дешевле купить хорошие RCA-кабели и результаты будут одинаково хорошими.

 

[Krunok]

Translation:
That is, in my case, will it be better if I pay 550 dollars for dx7s, than 250 dollars for d50? Is it worth overpaying for xlr? Will there be a difference in sound with rca, if the speakers are a distance of one and a half meters from each other?
Thank you.

I can actually read cyrillic and I'm also able to understand quite a lot of words from Russian as my language is relatively similar, although we use latin alphabet.

 

[amirm]

Translation:
That is, in my case, will it be better if I pay 550 dollars for dx7s, than 250 dollars for d50? Is it worth overpaying for xlr? Will there be a difference in sound with rca, if the speakers are a distance of one and a half meters from each other?
Thank you.

Thanks. Answering his question, if the only features he needs are in D50, then he should get that unit. The DX7s has headphone output for example and remote control which comes in handy in other situations.

 

[weikagen]

Hi, I just signed up to this forum and I really love the reviews and info this site provides.

I currently have the FX-Audio DAC-X6 (replaced the OPA2134 with LM4562; noticeable detail and clarity difference) and recently obtained the Aune X7S Class A amp. The setup sounds great, but I don't have anything else to compare it to. I've been following Amir's measurement on how the D30 DAC has better performance than the DAC-X6, so I decided to purchase the D50 on Massdrop. Today, the DX7s is posted on Massdrop for $379 USD, https://www.massdrop.com/buy/56981 . With it being a very good deal, I also purchased that.

Eventually I will receive the D50 and DX7s, Once I do, I'll have to compare the two systems vs each other:
D50 (DAC) + Aune X7S (Class A Amp) vs DX7S (standalone DAC+Amp combo)

I wonder if the D50 having an unbalanced signal (RCA) feeding into the Aune X7S which has a balanced headphone output is any different (worse) than using the DX7s' fully balanced setup. Any comments or suggestions are much appreciated, thank you.

@Amir, you think sometime in the future, you can also obtain the Aune X7S amp and collect measurements and do a review on that amp? Would love to hear your thoughts/opinions on that amp.