Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

[Krunok]

That's correct. Most DACs output varying current to input digital samples, rather than varying voltage which is the standard in audio signalling. So an op-amp or discrete amplifier is used to perform this I (current) to V (voltage) conversion. After this there may be another op-amp for buffering.

Yep, probably so. But at the end only what you measure will be counted..

 

[Michael Guntsche]

Just some final notes on the issue I am experiencing with my AMP. I had a longer talk this morning with Jan and we went back and forth a little bit of what might be the issue. The input impedance should not change during turning it on and back-feeding via the RCA inputs should not happen at all. It is possible that you some minimal voltage on the input ~100mV but even that should not trigger the issues I am seeing. In the end I am not wiser than I am before. I'll most likely will have a look at it when I have my voltmeter back but for the moment I will just refrain from turning it on/off while music is playing. Doing so gets rid of the issue.
I agree with Jan that it could be several things but to be honest in the end I just want to use it to listen to music so I will stop debugging it now.

 

[amirm]

Spikes like this unfortunately will not show up on multimeters. You need a digital scope so that the transient can be captured in time and then examined.

 

[RayDunzl]

My only thought on the glitch, the amp has a rather large capacitance to fill at turn-on.

www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/classic.htm

"Low impedance electrolytic buffer capacitors (Nichicon Fine Gold).
Total Buffer capacity 80.000 uF."

Power the DAC (or the amp) from a separate breaker - run an extension cord to another room if needed.

See if that makes a difference.

Perhaps there's a line voltage drop on amp turn-on that upsets the DAC.

My preamp is very sensitive in that way, it shuts down, the microwave clock loses its mind before the clock in the stove below it does, etc.

 

[Morphine]

hello, greetings to all.

I currently have a Musical Fidelity V90 HPA and I am thinking of buying a dac with higher resolution. I'm limited to 24/96 with MF
I have seen the good review of amirm and the good comments.
Would a good couple with the D10?

thanks and best regards

 

[Krunok]

hello, greetings to all.

I currently have a Musical Fidelity V90 HPA and I am thinking of buying a dac with higher resolution. I'm limited to 24/96 with MF
I have seen the good review of amirm and the good comments.
Would a good couple with the D10?

thanks and best regards

If you connect D10 to your MF with RCA cable you won't be limited to 24/96, so yes, those 2 would make a good couple.

 

[Krunok]

My only thought on the glitch, the amp has a rather large capacitance to fill at turn-on.

www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/classic.htm

Good point. According to specs it's actually a 25W toroidal transformer that has to do initial filling during power up and that is certainly not an easy task for it.

In my opinion having 80.000 uF with 10W of output power is an overkill.

 

[Michael Guntsche]

My only thought on the glitch, the amp has a rather large capacitance to fill at turn-on.

www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/classic.htm

"Low impedance electrolytic buffer capacitors (Nichicon Fine Gold).
Total Buffer capacity 80.000 uF."

Power the DAC (or the amp) from a separate breaker - run an extension cord to another room if needed.

See if that makes a difference.

Perhaps there's a line voltage drop on amp turn-on that upsets the DAC.

My preamp is very sensitive in that way, it shuts down, the microwave clock loses its mind before the clock in the stove below it does, etc.

If this is the reason wouldn't this mean that the same would happen without the RCA cables connected? Because I just tried that and cannot reproduce it with the RCA cables disconnected. As I said, I normally do not turn off/on the AMP during play so I should be fine.

 

[RayDunzl]

If this is the reason wouldn't this mean that the same would happen without the RCA cables connected?

Oh well... I tried...

 

[Krunok]

and I donated this to ASR, on its way from Sweden as we speak. Interesting to see measurements from the D10 with these installed.

Looks impressive! What exactly is that?

 

[Deleted member 65]

Looks impressive! What exactly is that?

This - - > http://www.sonicimagerylabs.com/products/Model994DiscreteOpAmp-Ticha.html

 

[Krunok]

Interesting.. Can't wait to see how will it measure against OPA1612.

 

[mike_c]

My first DAC , i am glad to see that was a good choice , at 70USD whit delivery included is a good deal to ! Nice job with the reviews !

 

[Krunok]

My first DAC , i am glad to see that was a good choice , at 70USD whit delivery included is a good deal to ! Nice job with the reviews !

Impressive price! Can you post a link?

 

[mike_c]

The sale is over and now is 89,99 usd !
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top...32851309951.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CNoL4c

 

[Krunok]

The sale is over and now is 89,99 usd !
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top...32851309951.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CNoL4c

Ah, ok - thanks anyway!

 

[Krunok]

I came on this device today and since then I cannot get rid of a thought that it might be something completely opposite of the D10, so I wanted to share it with you to hear your thoughts.

So pls meet Vermeer Audio TWO DAC/preamp: http://www.vermeeraudio.com/?page_id=1352

Available specs can be found in this review: http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sources/vermeer-audio-two/

Specifications (according to manufacturer):

• 32/384 Vermeer Audio Re sampling module
• Output tube with volume control
• Asynchronous USB inputs
• Analog and digital inputs
• DSD 64 /2.8 MHz by USB input , AES/EBU or Spdif
• Analog outputs: Single-ended RCA; Balanced XLR
• Digital output: BNC
• Analog inputs: Single-ended RCA; Balanced XLR
• Digital inputs: BNC; USB; TOSLINK; AES/EBU; S/PDIF; COAX
• Frequency range: 3Hz–48 kHz (-1dB) with DSD or 24/96 kHz input
• Output voltage: 2,3 or 4V RMS in fixed output mode; Up to 7V RMS in variable output mode
• Output impedance: 100 Ohms
• Signal to noise ratio: 129 dB
• Total harmonic distortion: < 0.1%
• Power supply: 100–240 VAC, 50/60 Hz
• Weight: app. 25 kg
• Dimensions (WxDxH): 450 x440 x130 mm

Retail prices:

• Model TWO : 17.900 €
• Model TWO LAN : 19.900 €

So, for 17.900 EUR (app 22.070 USD) you are getting a DAC/Preamp that does some upsampling to 32/384 with THD of 0.1% and SNR of 129dB. And yes, it has a 6021 tubes in output stage, hopefully at least that justifies the sum you need to pay for this "monster".

Compared to the D10, for app 80 USD you are getting 32/384 as well (but without upsampling and only God knowing what good is upsampling supposed to get you), THD of 0,0008% and SNR of 115dB (according to manufacturer's data and pretty much confirmed by Armin's measurements) and cheap OPA 2134 in the output stage. And yes, OP amp can be replaced if that will make you feel like a preamp designer at least for a moment.

Now what I cannot stop to ask myself is how these two very different devices would compare in an absolutely fair blind hearing test, so please share your thoughts if you also find that comparison intriguing..

 

[amirm]

Oh, you had me click on that link thinking it was a cheap DAC. I kept reading and wondering how much it was 'till I came back and read your post.

I must say I have never seen anyone solder the tubes to the board as they they have done. Or cryogenically treated the tube.

Without testing it is hard to say the effect of that tube in there. It could sound different or be a distortion/noise factory as some are.

 

[minh]

Hi Ad,
Could you help me out.
I bought this unit D10 to play DSD files from my macpro 2015.
I can't play any dsd files, all I get was noise. Is there any setting in my mac ?
Thanks

 

[Michael Guntsche]

Hi Ad,
Could you help me out.
I bought this unit D10 to play DSD files from my macpro 2015.
I can't play any dsd files, all I get was noise. Is there any setting in my mac ?
Thanks

You have to use an application that supports DoP (dsd over pcm) then you can use the d10 for dsd output.