Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

[amirm]

Since it was supposed to be an ODAC improvement just like the OL DAC was(at least that's how Massdrop marketed the SDAC), I'd love to see that in the comparison(The OL DAC if you've still got it lying around).

Sounds good. That is what I will do then! I bought the OL DAC and it is somewhere on my bench....

 

[Sal1950]

it is somewhere on my bench....

Get out the shovel.

 

[Wombat]

Karma. Testing DACs in your own time, mostly at your own expense and a never-ending to-do list. My god, Amir, what did you do in your past?

 

[Sal1950]

My god, Amir, what did you do in your past?

He worked for Micro$oft
What comes around, goes around. LOL

 

[Michael Guntsche]

Just a small update from my site. My D10 did arrive today and I already had a short listening test. It sounds completely the same as my old DAC but of course has higher native frequency support.
During the short tests I had not crackling or other sounds, so I can confirm that it seems to mute the output during frequency changes so apart from a very faint plop there is nothing audible.

 

[bluemask]

Hi,

since 2012 i'm a follower of android car radio scene (chinese products). In few years the development of these products has achieved surprising results, with great reliabilty and multi purpose performances at affordable prices.
The only aspect that never satisfied of these products was the lack of audio quality compared to non-android (and sometimes cheap) car radios.
My android car radio is actually a "Xtrons like" for Audi A3 (model PB76AA3AP), with latest Android 8 and without an internal DSP.
I partially solved the problem of the low pre-out of this radio by connecting the radio speaker output to my Audison AP 8.9 DSP amplifier installed in the car.
But i'd like to bring digital output from the android radio via USB to the Audison DSP. I read a lot of info on the net about USB/SPDIF converters and yesterday i found the Topping D10 .
For your best audio experience compared to mine, is this product a good solution for my intention?
Is there an alternative solution?
thanks in advance

 

[amirm]

I have used the D10 as a digital bridge and it indeed it works. It is a large unit though for automotive installation. There are much smaller USB to S/PDIF converters out there including some that are not much thicker than a cable.

While not a lot smaller I also reviewed this unit which works well: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-of-smsl-x-usb-digital-audio-converter.2432/

And oh, welcome aboard. At some point I like to get into DSP audio for our Sprinter RV so may want to pick your brain on that.

 

[Michael Guntsche]

Ok, so I tested the D10 some more today and I found a bug with it, or mine is dodgy.

I have the output of the D10 connected to my Headphone amp. If I turn the headphone amp OFF during play and then back on (sometimes I need to do this several times), my D10 crashes. What I mean with crash it that the display resets shortly back to 44.1kHz and then the ouput is muted. If I then switch to a DSD file transferred via DoP it still shows me PCM albeit with a higher kHz value.
The only thing I can think of is a ground issue but I tried with one of my other DACs and could not reproduce this issue at all.
So in Short, if I turn off my AMP my DAC resets. First I thought it was the relay in the D10 which just closes and then does not open again, but seeing that it then no longer "understands" DoP makes me really think it crashes internally.

 

[Liberal Democracy]

<snip>
At some point I like to get into DSP audio for our Sprinter RV so may want to pick your brain on that.

*camper van/ converted work van / van with a bed and microwave in the back.. , maybe just a van with a sleeping bag and a kettle........

 

[Michael Guntsche]

To update my last findings. Apparently I can only reproduce this if I turn off the AMP while playing. If I stop the music before and then power cycle the amp nothing seems to happen. While this is a workaround for me, I still want to understanda how the DAC can be affected by power cycling a connected AMP.

 

[Krunok]

Just popped in the OPA2227 but haven't listened yet. I've been running the LM4562 because of subjective preference and I may go back to that.

@amirm Just as an idea: as OPA1612 showed such good performance in DX7s do you think it would be a good idea to give it a shot in D10 as well? Is it realistic to expect some improvements beside the entertainment itself while doing that?

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/1pcs-TI-OPA...693880?hash=item3ad05a7b38:g:xpgAAOSwXeJYDyWW

 

[Sythrix]

@amirm Just as an idea: as OPA1612 showed such good performance in DX7s wouldn't you think it would be a good idea to give it a shot in D10 as well?

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/1pcs-TI-OPA...693880?hash=item3ad05a7b38:g:xpgAAOSwXeJYDyWW

Amir should now have the OPA1612 I sent him, mounted in such a manner. However, as bhigh suggested:

I'm not sure that replacing the buffer OPA 2134 will have that much of an effect on total sound, as it's being fed by two more OPA 2134 that are surface mounted and cannot be easily swapped. Performance will at best only be equal to what the upstream opamp are able to provide.

It could be for naught. Perhaps Amir can give us some feedback on this in the future, before you spend your money on something that may be pointless.

 

[Krunok]

Amir Should now have the OPA1612 I sent him, mounted in such a manner. However, as bhigh suggested:

It could be for naught. Perhaps Amir can give us some feedback on this in the future, before you spend you money on something that may be pointless.

I asked Topping support guy today what is the purpose of those 2 opamps, will post his answer when I get it. It may as well be the case that those 2 opamps are not in the analog signal path but doing something else instead.

 

[Sythrix]

I asked Topping support guy today what is the purpose of those 2 opamps, will post his answer when I get it. It may as well be the case that those 2 opamps are not in the analog signal path but doing something else instead.

Excellent. Topping has always responded to me in the past, so you should get your answer.

It might take a few days or even weeks, but they have never failed to get back to me with pertinent information.

 

[Krunok]

Excellent. Topping has always responded to me in the past, so you should get your answer.

Well, they did answer but their answer was not very enthusiastic as they merely stated that "they haven't tested D10 with OPA1612". As I don't quit that easilly I asked again, but in a more specific way, so hopefully I will get an answer.

Frankly, their opinion about OP1612 vs OPA2134 is of no much importance as we are all aware that 1612 is a better opamp, and amirm will anyhow have a final say with his new measurements with 1612, but I will insist on getting as detailed answer as possible about the function of those 2 soldered 2134 opamps.

 

[Sythrix]

Well, they did answer but their answer was not very enthusiastic as they merely stated that "they haven't tested D10 with OPA1612". As I don't quit that easilly I asked again, but in a more specific way, so hopefully I will get an answer.

Frankly, their opinion about OP1612 vs OPA2134 is of no much importance as we are all aware that 1612 is a better opamp, and amirm will anyhow have a final say with his new measurements with 1612, but I will insist on getting as detailed answer as possible about the function of those 2 soldered 2134 opamps.

Maybe send a picture with them circled? Things get lost in translation sometimes.

 

[Krunok]

Maybe send a picture with them circled? Things get lost in translation sometimes.

That's exactly what I did.

 

[Sal1950]

Well, they did answer but their answer was not very enthusiastic as they merely stated that "they haven't tested D10 with OPA1612". As I don't quit that easilly I asked again, but in a more specific way, so hopefully I will get an answer.

Frankly, their opinion about OP1612 vs OPA2134 is of no much importance as we are all aware that 1612 is a better opamp, and amirm will anyhow have a final say with his new measurements with 1612, but I will insist on getting as detailed answer as possible about the function of those 2 soldered 2134 opamps.

Are these manipulations something we can reasonably expect the average consumer to address?

 

[Krunok]

Are these manipulations something we can reasonably expect the average consumer to address?

I'm not sure I understood your question correctly but if you're asking if average consumer is able to change the opamp by itself my answer would be yes, as no special skills nor tools are needed.

But let's first wait for the reply from Topping about those 2 other opamps and for the measurements with the new amp to see if it makes sense at all.

 

[amirm]

Are these manipulations something we can reasonably expect the average consumer to address?

Enthusiasts do. Average consumer is not buying this product.