Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

[Thomas Savage]

True. And when you combine that with my wine habit it becomes very clear why I am inclined to cheapskate devices!

2 thirds through a hand rolled Mbombay while opening your second bottle of Pinot noir all the shit sounds the same, it just better work else the bin beckons.. the schiit bin .

 

[Timbo2]

LOL

This is the box: https://www.xiaomitoday.com/tanix-tx8-tv-box-review/

It worked very well with D10 and USB Audio Player Pro software. (http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-player-pro)

Yup, that is a device that doesn’t use the official TV version of Android. My Shield won’t run USB Audio Player Pro.

I use Onkyo HF Player for bit perfect and conversions on my phone, but the Shield won’t run that either.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onkyo.jp.musicplayer

 

[Krunok]

Yup, that is a device that doesn’t use the official TV version of Android. My Shield won’t run USB Audio Player Pro.

No, it doesn't - it uses "normal" Android 6.0. And, as it is rooted, it will pretty much run anything. It's quite fast, plays 4K videos without a glitch, it has Gb Ethernet and 5GHz WiFi so it's really good value for the money. I used to use it for playing music but as it cannot really be used "headless" (without monitor and KB) I switched it for RPI running Volumio.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Keep it on beeing illiterate regading USB connectivity.

Let's look at the evidence:

List of USB devices that work fine on my iMac Pro:

• ODAC rev. 1 (DAC - works fine after computer sleep)
• Emotiva Stealth DC-1 (DAC - works fine after computer sleep)
• AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2 (DAC - works fine after computer sleep)
• Audioengine D1 (DAC - works fine after computer sleep)
• Kensington Expert Mouse trackball
• Unicomp Model M keyboard
• HornetTek external USB 3.0 hard drive
• iPhone SE
• iPad Pro 12.9"
• AirSPY SDR (software define radio) dongle
• NooElec SDR dongle
• Realtek-based USB-C to HDMI adapter
• Half a dozen USB 2.0 and 3.0 thumb drives
• Panasonic DMC-GX85 mirrorless camera
• Several Amazon Kindles
• Amazon Fire HD 8 tablet
• M-Audio MIDI keyboard controller
• Transcend memory card reader/writer
• Epson Perfection V37 flatbed scanner
• LG DVD/CD drive
• USB to serial RS-232 adapter cable
• Garmin automotive GPS
• Sabrent 10 port USB 3.0 hub
• Anker 3-Port USB 3.0 Hub with 1 gigabit Ethernet Port Network Adapter

Complete list of all USB devices that do not work properly on my iMac Pro:

• Topping D10 DAC (sn. 1805 series with 18G firmware). Non-functional after sleep.

Computers on which the Topping D10 DAC is non-functional after sleep:

• iMac Pro running macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
• Dell Optiplex 755 running Elementary OS Linux 0.4.1 Loki
• Windows 10 PC with Gigabyte GA-A320M-HD2 motherboard

Given the above, someone would have to be "illiterate regarding USB connectivity," and basic troubleshooting, to come to the conclusion that the Topping D10 is not the most likely cause of the problems.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

It only doesn't work with $5000 iMac Pro.

Wrong. It also doesn't work with my Windows 10 PC that has a cheap Gigabyte motherboard. It also doesn't work with my Dell Optiplex 755 running a version of Linux (see above). It didn't work with Timbo2's Android-based Nvidia Shield TV.

Neither do I, even if they gave it to me for free

It's a professional workstation, so you're probably not the target audience.

 

[bakker_be]

Wrong. It also doesn't work with my Windows 10 PC that has a cheap Gigabyte motherboard. It also doesn't work with my Dell Optiplex 755 running a version of Linux (see above). It didn't work with Timbo2's Android-based Nvidia Shield TV.


It's a professional workstation, so you're probably not the target audience.

That's quite likely, but even so, I've yet to see professional software that runs on both platforms (MAC/Windows) performing demonstrably (measurably) worse on either of the platforms on equally specced machines. Since the move to generic x86 hardware that is, PowerPC was different.
Personally I just don't like anything Apple, not from a technical point of view but out of a difference regarding principles. This is neither the occasion nor the platform so I'll refrain from further comments regarding Apple and it's products

 

[Krunok]

Wrong. It also doesn't work with my Windows 10 PC that has a cheap Gigabyte motherboard. It also doesn't work with my Dell Optiplex 755 running a version of Linux (see above). It didn't work with Timbo2's Android-based Nvidia Shield TV.

There's quite a number of us who never had a single issue with D10. For example, it worked with my Lenovo notebook, my Android box and now works perfectly well with RPI as well.
If it doesn't work for you it still doesn't prove it's a bad device.

It's a professional workstation, so you're probably not the target audience.

For all we know he can be an IT proessional as well and still don't like Macs, as for example Amir, myself and a bunch of other guys on this forum don't, so I wouldn't make such assumptions.

 

[bakker_be]

There's quite a number of us who never had a single issue with D10. If it doesn't work for you it still doesn't prove it's a bad device.



For all we know he can be an IT proessional as well and still don't like Macs, as for example Amir, myself and a bunch of other guys on this forum don't, so I wouldn't make such assumptions.

As it happens, I am Been working in the IT department of a global player in the energy market for the last 18 years

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Personally I just don't like anything Apple, not from a technical point of view but out of a difference regarding principles. This is neither the occasion nor the platform so I'll refrain from further comments regarding Apple and it's products.

Thank you.

There's quite a number of us who never had a single issue with D10. For example, it worked with my Lenovo notebook, my Android box...

I never suggested that this problem affected all versions of Topping D10 hardware and firmware, or that it manifested itself on all platforms. Your D10 might work fine on all of my computers -- I don't know because I've not tested it.

and now works perfectly well with RPI as well.

Does your Raspberry Pi with the D10 ever sleep?

If it doesn't work for you it still doesn't prove it's a bad device.

I didn't say "it's a bad device." I said that my Topping D10, 1805 series serial number, running the v.18G firmware update, becomes non-functional after "sleep" on three different computers, by three different manufacturers, running three different operating systems (macOS, Linux, and Windows 10). It stands to reason that the problem is caused by my Topping D10 -- even if you have not had the problem on other computers while using a different Topping D10 running a different version of the firmware.

 

[Ron Texas]

If the D10 will not wake from sleep on multiple systems, there is a problem, even if it works on some systems. Several DAC's I have owned made a loud pop on wake from sleep even while acceptably quiet at other times. Anyone in entitled to return their D10 should do it rather than struggling.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

If the D10 will not wake from sleep on multiple systems, there is a problem, even if it works on some systems. Several DAC's I have owned made a loud pop on wake from sleep even while acceptably quiet at other times. Anyone in entitled to return their D10 should do it rather than struggling.

Thank you Ron.

I have a workaround; I've set my system to just blank the screen and not sleep. I like the company and the product, so I want to give Topping a fair chance to correct the 'sleep problem' before I give up and return my D10. There are few companies making audio products that perform so well at such modest prices, so I like to support those that do.

 

[Ron Texas]

Thank you Ron.

I have a workaround; I've set my system to just blank the screen and not sleep. I like the company and the product, so I want to give Topping a fair chance to correct the 'sleep problem' before I give up and return my D10. There are few companies making audio products that perform so well at such modest prices, so I like to support those that do.

I have my computer set to not sleep even though the D30 will wake without a pop. What I have noticed is after multiple sleep and wake cycles clicks and pops start to creep into the system. Some recommend not letting audio workstations sleep as the drivers may not reload properly. The NUC draws 5 watts with the display off and 2 when sleeping, so the effect on my electric bill is trivial, especially with the air conditioning loads here. I usually shut down the system at night. Besides, it's handy to have the drive attached to the NUC available all day long over my network.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

I have my computer set to not sleep even though the D30 will wake without a pop.

My only reason for having it sleep is to cause the fans to run less/slower. They are the only moving part inside the iMac Pro and I want to minimize wear and tear -- though Apple seems to have very long-lived fans. If I have to keep it from sleeping in order to use the D10, I might be willing to do that long-term.

 

[Ron Texas]

My only reason for having it sleep is to cause the fans to run less/slower. They are the only moving part inside the iMac Pro and I want to minimize wear and tear -- though Apple seems to have very long-lived fans. If I have to keep it from sleeping in order to use the D10, I might be willing to do that long-term.

The fan in my NUC concerns me too. That's why I shut it off at night. I also have it set to run as slow as possible when the machine is cool.

 

[Timbo2]

The fan in my NUC concerns me too. That's why I shut it off at night. I also have it set to run as slow as possible when the machine is cool.

I've been building my own PCs for 20+ years. Fans have been my #1 failure point followed by hard drives. You will note that both are the major mechanical bits of a PC. Once you get past the "bath tub" curve most electronics are remarkably stable. On the electronics sides power supplies are the biggest issue. An you will note that many PS have a fan...

 

[Ron Texas]

I've been building my own PCs for 20+ years. Fans have been my #1 failure point followed by hard drives. You will note that both are the major mechanical bits of a PC. Once you get past the "bath tub" curve most electronics are remarkably stable. On the electronics sides power supplies are the biggest issue. An you will note that many PS have a fan...

I have seen several power supplies fail.

 

[Quijano]

Hi, I have registered first to thank Amir for so many reviews and to all members for the good information and sense of humor they share in this forum.

And second to share this about the 'sleep' problem of the Topping D10.

A few days ago I received a D10, serial number 1806, Revision v6.F2. I've tested with two computers and the problem seems related to USB 2.0 vs USB 3.0 ports.

With an Intel NUC6PJY that has only USB 3.0 ports the Topping doesn't awake after sleep (Windows 10 or Ubuntu 16). Connected to an old iMac that has only USB 2.0 ports there is no problem, when in suspend mode the Topping displays first "---" en then ".". When the iMac return from sleep the Topping awakes and display the sample rate.

So maybe some incompatibility with USB 3.0 controller.

[sorry for my english...]

 

[έχω δίκιο]

The fan in my NUC concerns me too. That's why I shut it off at night. I also have it set to run as slow as possible when the machine is cool.

I've been building my own PCs for 20+ years. Fans have been my #1 failure point followed by hard drives. You will note that both are the major mechanical bits of a PC. Once you get past the "bath tub" curve most electronics are remarkably stable. On the electronics sides power supplies are the biggest issue. An you will note that many PS have a fan...

I've had the same experiences, having just replaced a power supply that took out a motherboard as it died. Too many people choose fans based on price alone (or which ones have the brightest blue LEDs), leading to a bunch of cheap fans with short lifespans. There are good fans to be had, but they tend to not be sold in the consumer stores.

I wouldn't touch an earlier iMac with a rotating media drives hard drive and an optical drives. Too much to fail in a system that is too hard to service.

P.S. I still have the first personal computer I built -- a 4mHz Z80 system with 64K of RAM that runs CP/M 80. Fan still works fine in that.

 

[Ron Texas]

So maybe some incompatibility with USB 3.0 controller.

[sorry for my english...]

See if a cheap USB 2.0 hub fixes the problem.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Hi, I have registered first to thank Amir for so many reviews and to all members for the good information and sense of humor they share in this forum.

Welcome and thanks!

And second to share this about the 'sleep' problem of the Topping D10.

A few days ago I received a D10, serial number 1806, Revision v6.F2.

I'm really starting to think that the third and fourth digits ("06") may be indicative of the firmware they are shipped with or a production run number rather than a hardware change. The revision number you show is the same as mine, which is an 1805 series serial number.

I've tested with two computers and the problem seems related to USB 2.0 vs USB 3.0 ports.

With an Intel NUC6PJY that has only USB 3.0 ports the Topping doesn't awake after sleep (Windows 10 or Ubuntu 16). Connected to an old iMac that has only USB 2.0 ports there is no problem, when in suspend mode the Topping displays first "---" en then ".". When the iMac return from sleep the Topping awakes and display the sample rate.

So maybe some incompatibility with USB 3.0 controller.

Thank you for that information. On two of my systems (iMac Pro and Windows 10 PC with Gigabyte motherboard), the ports are USB 3.0. On the other one, a Dell Optiplex 755, the port I used was USB 2.0.

But your tests confirm that this problem is not just limited to a couple of us.

See if a cheap USB 2.0 hub fixes the problem.

Already on it!