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Review and Measurements of Grace Design m900 DAC & Amp

graz_lag

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This review for example for a 10,400mAh pack :
https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review USB battery box FlourEon HQM403 UK.html

Screenshot_2019-01-30_20-02-35.png
 

graz_lag

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Blumlein 88

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Benefits of this type of design?

Some devices put out a high voltage signal. If you don't need it, then you may waste dynamic range by keeping it cut back. Your noise floor could intrude on some systems in other words. Imagine your amp clips with a 2 volt input, but your device puts out 8 volts. You'll have to reduce everything by at least 12 db while your noise floor isn't reduced. So you have lost 12 db of dynamic range available.

By making it work to a nominal standard of only 2 volts that is enough for most gear. Yet if needed, you add analog gain. Doing that raises both noise levels and signal levels though if done well the dynamic range available from highest to lowest levels will hardly be effected. On a system that needs the higher input everything will be proportioned properly to keep noise levels low at the resulting output. Or in other words if your system needed 8 volts to clip, this optional gain stage will get you there without compromising results for high levels or modest levels.

Such an arrangement lets the device work with good gain staging (which helps available dynamic range and keeps noise levels low) over many more systems instead of having to be carefully matched with everything else that follows.

Now some of the subsequent test results indicates this particular device may add noise along with gain or may raise distortion while adding gain. That isn't good. It indicates someone didn't fully think out the design. Or in this case probably a result of trying to run on 5v USB power.
 

Roen

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So basically, keep the DAC portion to max 2V, vary digital volume and let the Amp portion vary via analog gain from unity to above if needed?

Why is this better than having separates with DAC line out at 2V and Amp varying in the analog domain?
 

Blumlein 88

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So basically, keep the DAC portion to max 2V, vary digital volume and let the Amp portion vary via analog gain from unity to above if needed?

Why is this better than having separates with DAC line out at 2V and Amp varying in the analog domain?

Because there aren't many amps like this. And doing the same thing at that point could result in a less than good impedance match.
 

Roen

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Because there aren't many amps like this. And doing the same thing at that point could result in a less than good impedance match.
Aren't all analog amps like this?

I wasn't referring to combo units, I was referring to a separate DAC and Amp and comparing the combo unit hybrid digital / analog design to a separate DAC and amp.
 

Veri

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Btw @amirm might the Grace 5V supply be simply quite bad? I noted a serious difference between your D50 multi-tone measurement from the Battle of Schiit Dacs compared to the one in this review thread:

Grace supply + D50
index.php


Previous D50 measurement (maybe lab supply?):
index.php
 

Blumlein 88

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Aren't all analog amps like this?

I wasn't referring to combo units, I was referring to a separate DAC and Amp and comparing the combo unit hybrid digital / analog design to a separate DAC and amp.
No they aren't all like that.
 

Blumlein 88

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Roen

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Headphone amps, sorry. Should have been more clear. I made the assumption since we were on a headphone DAC/Amp thread.
 

Frank Dernie

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Headphone amps, sorry. Should have been more clear. I made the assumption since we were on a headphone DAC/Amp thread.
I think you'll find that for most people having been involved in hifi for a while an amp is something for driving speakers.
Something only suitable for headphones has been called a headphone amp for a long time.
I do see the internet listener discussions segueing more and more into headphones and headphone amps but it certainly irritates me when I click on an amp thread and find it is actually about headphone amps, but I am old and grumpy.
I have zero interest in headphones for serious listening, I only use them on the bus, so discussions about anything to do with headphone listening on a hifi forum I try to avoid.
 
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amirm

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Something only suitable for headphones has been called a headphone amp for a long time.
This is the other way around for people who predominantly use headphones! This is why in my reviews of speaker amplifiers I put in the word "power amplifier" and emphasize that it is for driving speakers. The world has changed around us Frank. :) Headphones are the default for many now.
 

Roen

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It is what you use to listen to music once you can afford your own home ;)
No need for discomfort any longer.
But my home has a headphone room already!

Those boxes with RAALs on them are just for broadcast TV in the living room.
 

Frank Dernie

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But my home has a headphone room already!

Those boxes with RAALs on them are just for broadcast TV in the living room.
I have tried headphones, and own far more than I should from the Stax Lambda Pros I bought 20+ years ago and have listened to only a few times, Kingsound electrostatics, AKG Q701 and Q90 and loads of ear buds, all bought with high hopes, all disappointingly uncomfortable.
The only ones I use now are some Blutooth ear buds on the bus and sometimes on country walks with my dog and the superb Q90s on a 'plane. I now have speakers in my study (Proac EBS), bedroom Yamaha NS1000M, dining room Devialet Phantom, and my main room, Tune Audio Anima and Goldmund Epilog 1&2, which is also used for the rare occasions I watch tv or a film, so I don't need to wear headphones at home anywhere any more.
 
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