Review and Measurements of E1DA 9038S BAL Portable DAC & Amp

[ZeDestructor]

That was suggested to me in the Discord; next time I catch it I'm going to try airplane mode just confirm. If it is EMI, is there anything I can do aside from airplane mode?

Wrap it all in grounded/earthed alu foil to add a bunch of extra EM shielding :|

 

[raanany]

I've just quickly read the past few posts so I might be missing something but what's the problem exactly? Obviously if you use "bit-perfect" mode in any software player you'll lose the ability to control the volume in the software but is it really necessary to use it? Maybe there was a point years ago but I highly doubt any modern operating systems or software players are gonna have such a bad volume control to affect the sound, especially if you don't perform any re-sampling. And there seems to be a common misconception that digital volume control somehow is "lossy" because you lose resolution when reducing the volume digitally. While it's true that the SNR gets reduced by the same amount as you reduce the volume ("losing" resolution), it doesn't matter, if you didn't hear any noise with the volume turned all the way up, then you won't hear any even if you turn the volume way down. With a residual noise of about 3.5 uV the 9038s is just shy of the SOTA DACs, but as far as I'm aware, quieter than any other dongle out there so I'm not sure why you think that it's "practically unusable with IEMs". The only issue I could see is if the digital volume control doesn't have enough steps so it's hard to adjust the volume to the right level, but other than that I don't see any problem with using the 9038s with IEMs, just be careful so you don't accidentally play music with the volume at 0 dBFS.

To show that I'm not talking out of my ass (hopefully), here's a picture from RME's ADI-2 DAC manual. As you can see, digitally reducing a 24 bit signal by 60 dB and 96 dB doesn't change the noise floor at all, it just reduces the amplitude of the signal, without introducing any sign of distortion:
View attachment 46045
And for reference here's the manual: https://www.archiv.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf They talk about digital volume control on page 63 and I highly recommend giving it a read even if you don't own any RME gear.

Just noticed this in section 19.3 of RME’s manual suggesting they do implement analog volume control to some degree:

“To maintain an optimum level for devices connected to the analog outputs and to maximize the dynamic range, the ADI-2 DAC internally uses hi-quality electronic switches, which realize a hardware based Reference Level selection in steps of 6 dB over a range of 18 dB: +1 dBu, +7 dBu, +13 dBu and +19 dBu.
The analog outputs also feature a mechanism to set the reference level automatically. Auto Ref Lev(el) maximizes the signal to noise ratio when using the Volume knob. It changes to the next higher and lower reference level setting when the gain chosen via the Volume knob would sug- gest to set a better fitting value, with optimized signal to noise ratio.
Example: Ref Lev is set to +19 dBu, Volume is turned down to -20 dB. The effective signal to noise ratio at the XLR output is now 120 dB minus 20 dB = 100 dB (RMS unweighted). While it is unlikely that any noise will be audible, changing the Ref Level to +1 dBu would need only a Volume setting of -2 dB to achieve the same level or volume. The effective SNR then becomes 117 minus 2 = 115 dB (15 dB higher). Such settings are usually done manually by the user. Auto Ref Lev takes over this task, working in both directions when turning Volume up or down.”

Matrix Audio do the same BTW.
I still think the E1DA could be made better with at least the addition of one additional reference level for sensitive IEMs

 

[tifune]

I still think the E1DA could be made better with at least the addition of one additional reference level for sensitive IEMs

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I believe this exists in the v2 version? "Mode 4" for sensitive IEMs, maxes out at -15db

 

[raanany]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I believe this exists in the v2 version? "Mode 4" for sensitive IEMs, maxes out at -15db

That’s not the same. A hard limit simply means the signal can’t go over a certain amplitude. What other vendors are doing is analog attenuation or switchable DAC reference voltage. These would allow for finer digital volume granularity and potentially even lower output noise.

 

[Schackmannen]

Just noticed this in section 19.3 of RME’s manual suggesting they do implement analog volume control to some degree:

“To maintain an optimum level for devices connected to the analog outputs and to maximize the dynamic range, the ADI-2 DAC internally uses hi-quality electronic switches, which realize a hardware based Reference Level selection in steps of 6 dB over a range of 18 dB: +1 dBu, +7 dBu, +13 dBu and +19 dBu.
The analog outputs also feature a mechanism to set the reference level automatically. Auto Ref Lev(el) maximizes the signal to noise ratio when using the Volume knob. It changes to the next higher and lower reference level setting when the gain chosen via the Volume knob would sug- gest to set a better fitting value, with optimized signal to noise ratio.
Example: Ref Lev is set to +19 dBu, Volume is turned down to -20 dB. The effective signal to noise ratio at the XLR output is now 120 dB minus 20 dB = 100 dB (RMS unweighted). While it is unlikely that any noise will be audible, changing the Ref Level to +1 dBu would need only a Volume setting of -2 dB to achieve the same level or volume. The effective SNR then becomes 117 minus 2 = 115 dB (15 dB higher). Such settings are usually done manually by the user. Auto Ref Lev takes over this task, working in both directions when turning Volume up or down.”

Matrix Audio do the same BTW.
I still think the E1DA could be made better with at least the addition of one additional reference level for sensitive IEMs

It's definitely the best way to do it but I don't think it's possible to implement it in that form factor and price.

 

[boodi]

Good day everyone .
Just swallowd the whole discussion , finished now .

Very informative .
Thanks to @IVX a lot for patience / time spent all through in this thread

first question ,
I'm buying this unit to power hd600 balanced and among others Onkyo a800 - not running balanced at moment ; the a800 supposely more sensitive then hd600 have an impedance of 32ohm , in case 9038s pairs well > this is the question : will 9038s pair well 32ohm soundwise ? ,

asking confirmation as I would obviously have to account also for an aftermarket balanced cable 2.5mm terminated ($) for them

 

[raanany]

Got my E1DA 9038S. Hooked it up to my Campfire Andromeda Gold and here are my impressions:

1. Sounds amazing. Very detailed and powerful.
2. Even on the lowest volume in iTunes it's pretty loud. If you plan to use it this way, make sure you route all notification sounds to another device (using the Audio MIDI Setup app). Otherwise, if an OS notification comes in you'll damage your ears and your IEMs.
3. Due to my IEM's very high sensitivity I do hear the faintest white noise hiss but it's only noticeable when no music is playing. No real issue.
4. I need a new pair of office headphones. Using these IEMs with this DAC-AMP is dangerous. The smallest mistake will kill my ears.
5. Ivan (@IVX ) - I promise last time I'm nagging about this, please please make the next version with true IEM mode (much lower voltage gain).

 

[Eneen]

@IVX , will 9038D and PVD2 work with Tidal app without resampling? UAPP has some limitations regarding search/explore features, that's why I'm asking.
Do you plan to add filter option similar to LG V30?
Do you plan to introduce MQA version of one of your DAC?

 

[Veri]

Do you plan to introduce MQA version of one of your DAC?

Pretty sure that will be impossible. It requires a lot of coding effort and licensing agreement. Currently E1DA is priced really well for its specs. I'm sure people want to keep that...

 

[Eneen]

@Veri I'm aware of it, just asking as Zorloo took similar approach and is about to release two versions, one of MQA one without. BTW now we can somewhat imagine how much MQA charges per device...
I've mentioned Zorloo as I've asked them about Tidal resampling and they've told me that MQA is working with Tidal on this. I'm about to create petition for Tidal to add direct playback (like UAPP). Maybe non-MQA ppl would benefit (I'm one of them).

 

[Veri]

@Veri I'm aware of it, just asking as Zorloo took similar approach and is about to release two versions, one of MQA one without. BTW now we can somewhat imagine how much MQA charges per device...

The difference here is that Zorloo uses a lower-class, lower-fidelity integrated chip by ESS which supports on-chip MQA support. There is zero implementation for the manufacturer building it, it just uses off-the-shelf chip capabilities.

E1DA uses highest class mobile 9038Q2M. So far there is zero MQA support here from ESS Sabre. In the future, maybe their Pro and the mobile version of it will also get on-chip MQA support. but so far nothing exists.

Edit: just looked it up. looks like something called 'ess 9068' will support it though. http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en...ds-first-codec-hardware-mqa-hi-res-rendering/ so we'll see, in the future.

 

[Eneen]

Indeed! Even 9281P from V30 doesn't come with on-board MQA (http://www.esstech.com/index.php?cID=422).

 

[Evzen]

Hello! You can use the E1DA PowerDAC V2 or the E1DA 9038S Gen 2 with an amplifier. PC -> 1DA PowerDAC V2 -> (2.5 jack -> 3.5 jack) 3.5 jack - 2rca -> sound amplifier. Thank you.

 

[tifune]

Hello! You can use the E1DA PowerDAC V2 or the E1DA 9038S Gen 2 with an amplifier. PC -> 1DA PowerDAC V2 -> (2.5 jack -> 3.5 jack) 3.5 jack - 2rca -> sound amplifier. Thank you.

I think you're asking if that's possible? No - it's stated on the store page and FAQ that you can destroy the 9038S by using a 3.5/2.5 converter. Also, E1DA does not recommend amping the 9038 at all - headphones only

 

[Veri]

PC -> 1DA PowerDAC V2 -> (2.5 jack -> 3.5 jack) 3.5 jack - 2rca -> sound amplifier. Thank you.

No. It can break the device. You can't convert balanced to 3.5mm with just a cable, it's dangerous to do so.

 

[Evzen]

No. It can break the device. You can't convert balanced to 3.5mm with just a cable, it's dangerous to do so.

Thank you, then I'll see another dac for PC.

 

[Veri]

Thank you, then I'll see another dac for PC.

The creator is working on 9038d which will be 3.5mm... we are all waiting

 

[Evzen]

The creator is working on 9038d which will be 3.5mm... we are all waiting

This is good news, but will it work with a sound amplifier?

 

[Veri]

This is good news, but will it work with a sound amplifier?

@IVX said it would have a HomeDAC mode

 

[Icarus2000]

Dear friends,

Based on this review I just bought one of these. I have a question though.. I'am not a very technical person and want to use this dac between my pc(nog usb c port) and my TPA3116 2x50W type d amp combined with two b&w dm110. So what kind of cables do I need for this setup? Or is it not even possible?

PC: Dell T3420 SFF Precision i5 with 6x USB 3.2 Gen 1 (3.1 Gen 1) Type A
AMP: 3.5mm female jack (audio input)

I read some post in here regarding, I presume, the same question, but I didn't understand the technical solutions offered, sorry.. That balanced vs unbalanced got me confused.. Please bare with me

Thanks in advance