Revel M106 vs M126Be: worth the upgrade?

[J1034]

I have exactly the same problem with many speakers, including the M106, F206 and F208. I've now bought the F228Be to replace the F208s, and with the F228Be, the need to turn down the volume when music gets busy is gone. The sound is so calm, sometimes almost boring. But that's how it should be.

My AKG K812s had the same problem with the stock cable. After upgrading to a 3rd party cable, it sounds far more calm, but a little boring. It's just what happens when you remove things that should not be there. I like to compare it to bloated lows with cheap speakers. When you've never heard a good speaker, you feel like you're missing something if the lows are tight.

I wanted to update this message because after another week of playing, the F228s sound more fun and they throw a very good soundstage. A pretty big upgrade from my F208s. There's also a realism that was missing in the old speakers, as if the sharp edges are gone compared to the F208.

Every loudspeaker that I bought new had to play 100/200 hours before they begin to sound good, no placebo. I also had this with the M106s in the past. Compared to my old monitor speakers, they sounded boxy. Sounds stayed in the speakers. Now they sound as big as my old monitors, so don't judge speakers/headphones straight out of the box.

Negative side effect of the new Revel series sounding so good is that I now also have to upgrade my m106s to the m126s

 

[Beave]

...
Every loudspeaker that I bought new had to play 100/200 hours before they begin to sound good, no placebo.

Welp, it's settled then. Break in is real and takes 100 to 200 hours. Source is definitive and clearly states NO PLACEBO.

 

[J1034]

Welp, it's settled then. Break in is real and takes 100 to 200 hours. Source is definitive and clearly states NO PLACEBO.

It was the case with my speakers. But you could take the emotionally mature approach and just state your opinion instead of reacting sarcastically to put others down. I thought trolling was a kid thing?

I'll stick to avs forum for now. Seems that's where I'll get more quality interactions.

 

[Beave]

It was the case with my speakers. But you could take the emotionally mature approach and just state your opinion instead of reacting sarcastically to put others down. I thought trolling was a kid thing?

I'll stick to avs forum for now. Seems that's where I'll get more quality interactions.

It was the case with your brain, you mean, not your speakers. That's the "emotionally mature" statement of my opinion.

If you'd like to learn more about what's real and what's imaginary in break-in, there are several threads on this forum discussing the topic. There is debate about how much break in is audible, and how quickly it happens, but nobody outside of audiophile mythology believes it's anywhere near audible at 100/200 hours. I mean, how could you even make such a determination? Do you remember how they sounded 200 hours ago?

 

[J1034]

It was the case with your brain, you mean, not your speakers. That's the "emotionally mature" statement of my opinion.

If you'd like to learn more about what's real and what's imaginary in break-in, there are several threads on this forum discussing the topic. There is debate about how much break in is audible, and how quickly it happens, but nobody outside of audiophile mythology believes it's anywhere near audible at 100/200 hours. I mean, how could you even make such a determination? Do you remember how they sounded 200 hours ago?

You're talking like you have all the wisdom in the world. What kind of speakers or headphones have you bought new, and used from 0 to 200 hours, and what did you hear? I'm interested in real-world experiences.

Measurements say only so much, your brain is a much better instrument for hearing small changes in audio. For example: when a Focal and Revel speaker measure roughly the same, but sound completely different, that's proof that a measuring instrument only shows you a bit of what's going on.

I have no idea if the largest change in the speakers I heard was with 50 or 150 hours. It's just the case that over time, the sound was better than before. I always had the speaker it replaced to directly compare with

 

[Beave]

You're talking like you have all the wisdom in the world. What kind of speakers or headphones have you bought new, and used from 0 to 200 hours, and what did you hear? I'm interested in real-world experiences.

What you call "real-world experiences" are what most of us call anecdotes, or stories, with no scientific controls. In other words, they're useless for forming conclusions properly.

Measurements say only so much, your brain is a much better instrument for hearing small changes in audio. For example: when a Focal and Revel speaker measure roughly the same, but sound completely different, that's proof that a measuring instrument only shows you a bit of what's going on.

You obviously haven't read many threads or posts on this forum. Measurement equipment can measure at levels far beyond what a person can hear. As for two speakers measuring "roughly" the same, but sounding completely different, the key phrase is "roughly." In other words, when one looks closely at the measurements, significant differences are found.

(edited to fix spelling errors)

 

[Prolix]

I have exactly the same problem with many speakers, including the M106, F206 and F208. I've now bought the F228Be to replace the F208s, and with the F228Be, the need to turn down the volume when music gets busy is gone. The sound is so calm, sometimes almost boring. But that's how it should be.

My AKG K812s had the same problem with the stock cable. After upgrading to a 3rd party cable, it sounds far more calm, but a little boring. It's just what happens when you remove things that should not be there. I like to compare it to bloated lows with cheap speakers. When you've never heard a good speaker, you feel like you're missing something if the lows are tight.

I recently bought a pair of 126bes and also found that the treble doesn't bother me like the performa3s. Even bigger change for me is the realism/soundstage. It's spooky. I'm not a reviewer or a scientist so all I can say is that with the 126 it feels like there's a person right in front of me. I read the reviews and measurements that suggest the 105 is the better speaker in some ways, and see that some people don't perceive much of a difference between the 105 and 126, and my experience just doesn't line up with that at all.

 

[J1034]

I recently bought a pair of 126bes and also found that the treble doesn't bother me like the performa3s. Even bigger change for me is the realism/soundstage. It's spooky. I'm not a reviewer or a scientist so all I can say is that with the 126 it feels like there's a person right in front of me. I read the reviews and measurements that suggest the 105 is the better speaker in some ways, and see that some people don't perceive much of a difference between the 105 and 126, and my experience just doesn't line up with that at all.

I also find them more natural and layered in the soundstage. But reviewers also noted that, so it's not strange that I heard the difference.

On this forum everything is about measurements. If a phone speaker measures better than an expensive, great sounding speaker, they would still think the phone sounds better. Measurements don't say anything about how much detail you hear or realism/transparency. You for example can't measure the hardness in the Performa3's sound.

 

[HooStat]

It's just the case that over time, the sound was better than before.

That is your brain adapting, not the speaker breaking in.

See https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-confidence-30-loudspeaker for a better appreciation for the process.

 

[preload]

On this forum everything is about measurements. If a phone speaker measures better than an expensive, great sounding speaker, they would still think the phone sounds better.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[Ron Texas]

We are all different. When there is a bump in the response at around 700 hz, I hear harshness in female voices. So a speaker with a better preference score will sound worse to me if it has that 700 hz bump than another speaker lacking that exact deviation. The original LS50 has an uneven frequency response, but the vast majority of reviewers loved it. Is it the emperor's clothes or do most of the problems go away in a typical listening environment?

 

[J1034]

That is your brain adapting, not the speaker breaking in.

See https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-confidence-30-loudspeaker for a better appreciation for the process.

Well, i have a lot of speakers and know exactly when things change because I compare constantly. I even called the Revel importer for information on this issue and he said that every part changes or "burns in" with use. After a couple hours, the sound should settle and won't change much anymore. But to each his own I guess!

This is an interesting article with lots of measurements:

https://www.gr-research.com/driver-burn-in.html

 

[Asinus]

Well, i have a lot of speakers and know exactly when things change because I compare constantly. I even called the Revel importer for information on this issue and he said that every part changes or "burns in" with use. After a couple hours, the sound should settle and won't change much anymore. But to each his own I guess!

This is an interesting article with lots of measurements:

https://www.gr-research.com/driver-burn-in.html

I need a better explanation/proof.

Why didn't they specified the specs of the driver in their experiment regarding short-term and long-term power handling? Another interpretation of those results is that they drove those transducers out of spec with added mass for a long time so either intentionally provoked mechanical changes or the heat for prolonged period also affected the magnet in the motor. Basically instead of a burn-in they made a controlled burn-out.

I am also suspicious about not posting the actual data of the three "consistent" measured drivers but only reports for one, and only adding replies of people that are in agreement.

I have more confidence in these measurements:
Do Audio Speakers Break-in? | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

If I am allowed an ad-hominem, isn't that the guy who claims he "fixed" the M126Be with a passive components (with no proof or evidence) and implied the tweeter was not beryllium (with no proof or evidence)?

 

[Rottmannash]

Welp, it's settled then. Break in is real and takes 100 to 200 hours. Source is definitive and clearly states NO PLACEBO.

My F208's sounded fabulous the moment sound emanated from them and haven't changed since.

 

[J1034]

I need a better explanation/proof.

Why didn't they specified the specs of the driver in their experiment regarding short-term and long-term power handling? Another interpretation of those results is that they drove those transducers out of spec with added mass for a long time so either intentionally provoked mechanical changes or the heat for prolonged period also affected the magnet in the motor. Basically instead of a burn-in they made a controlled burn-out.

I am also suspicious about not posting the actual data of the three "consistent" measured drivers but only reports for one, and only adding replies of people that are in agreement.

I have more confidence in these measurements:
Do Audio Speakers Break-in? | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

If I am allowed an ad-hominem, isn't that the guy who claims he "fixed" the M126Be with a passive components (with no proof or evidence) and implied the tweeter was not beryllium (with no proof or evidence)?

I have no idea what their methods are, but you'll always have some that say burn-in matters, and others saying that it doesn't change anything.

I would like to know where you read about the M126Be's not using beryllium. Could you show me where he said this? Thanks.

 

[Asinus]

I have no idea what their methods are, but you'll always have some that say burn-in matters, and others saying that it doesn't change anything.

I would like to know where you read about the M126Be's not using beryllium. Could you show me where he said this? Thanks.

It's not about how many people say it or really believe it. It's about how you can prove the claims and so far Amir's and rtings, using finished products and playing in end-user conditions, found no frequency-response change after extended playback.

This is what I mentioned before:
$4000 Revel VS $350 Wharfedale | The Results Might Surprise You! - YouTube around the 2:30 mark he claims it is an "aluminum dome lightly coated with beryllium" but it is up to the viewer to figure it out.

 

[J1034]

It's not about how many people say it or really believe it. It's about how you can prove the claims and so far Amir's and rtings, using finished products and playing in end-user conditions, found no frequency-response change after extended playback.

This is what I mentioned before:
$4000 Revel VS $350 Wharfedale | The Results Might Surprise You! - YouTube around the 2:30 mark he claims it is an "aluminum dome lightly coated with beryllium" but it is up to the viewer to figure it out.

He says that the tweeter is "probably" aluminum with coated beryllium. I thought he had proof or something. This would be very interesting to figure out, I'm neutral in all this, including burn-in, I just like information and take decisions based on that.

I've directly compared the F208 and F228BE's and heard a pretty big difference. It's just a different sound, so that's the reason I upgraded. A great discount always helps of course

 

[Asinus]

He says that the tweeter is "probably" aluminum with coated beryllium. I thought he had proof or something. This would be very interesting to figure out, I'm neutral in all this, including burn-in, I just like information and take decisions based on that.

I've directly compared the F208 and F228BE's and heard a pretty big difference. It's just a different sound, so that's the reason I upgraded. A great discount always helps of course

That is my beef with the guy, that he is making belittling remarks with no proof while pitching his sale. Actori Incumbit Onus Probandi (latin for "if you can't prove it shut your mouth").

I own the three models, M126Be, F208 and F228Be. In my experience while the drivers on the 228s are better integrated and I'd like to think I would pick them in a blind test, the difference is not night and day it is more like small but strategic differences.

I may have a soft spot for them but I think the 208s offer more bang for the buck than the other two and someone on a budget should consider two subs and a Dirac box instead of going for the 228s.

 

[J1034]

That is my beef with the guy, that he is making belittling remarks with no proof while pitching his sale. Actori Incumbit Onus Probandi (latin for "if you can't prove it shut your mouth").

I own the three models, M126Be, F208 and F228Be. In my experience while the drivers on the 228s are better integrated and I'd like to think I would pick them in a blind test, the difference is not night and day it is more like small but strategic differences.

I may have a soft spot for them but I think the 208s offer more bang for the buck than the other two and someone on a budget should consider two subs and a Dirac box instead of going for the 228s.

The fact that he makes a video trying to proof that a more expensive speaker is not worth it, is enough for me to doubt what he says. If Revel intentionally would use cheap components etc, rivaling brands would blow them away, and that's not happening.

I also think the F228Be's are not worth it compared to the F208's if you don't get a good discount and don't have a lot of money to spend, but for me, they are easier on the ears.

If you watch more movies than you listen to music, I agree that there's a small difference between the two. Good subs to go with the F208's are the way to go then.

If you want to compare the two models, listen to how natural high notes sound. With the F208's there's a bit of an extra spark that can make things too bright. But maybe that's what some people want to hear in their speakers.

I also find that with the F208's, the sound stays in the speakers more, while with the F228Be's, the sound is more in the room.

 

[goat76]

Agree with you, the delta here is a bit too large... anyway I am inquiring with Revel via email and they are looking into it. I will let you know what they say.

This is an old one but did Revel ever get back to you about the strange distortion behavior in your M126Be?