Remaining Considerations on DSD

[Galliardist]

It's just a shame that they go through all that time making high quality DSD256 copies of original masters... then degrade them again to LP before we can hear the results

Some of them presumably get to SACD as well, but in this day and age why not sell us the higher quality DSD256 as a download?

 

[Head_Unit]

Some more DSD stuff. Quite interesting but I don't quite follow the math-doesn't a level reduction alter the DSD bitstream? Can that still be "pure" I know in PCM you can recalculate and if you have enough internal bits it should be "transparent" at least if the reduction is 1 bit (-6 dB).
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/mixing-in-pure-dsd-no-pcm-allowed/
https://positive-feedback.com/interviews/mastering-engineer-tom-caulfield/

 

[mocenigo]

It's just a shame that they go through all that time making high quality DSD256 copies of original masters... then degrade them again to LP before we can hear the results

Some of them presumably get to SACD as well, but in this day and age why not sell us the higher quality DSD256 as a download?

DSD256 is a very large file. It MUST sound better, right? File size is the new amplifier price tag.

 

[voodooless]

DSD256 is a very large file. It MUST sound better, right? File size is the new amplifier price tag.

Who needs DSD256 when you can have DSD1024?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Some more DSD stuff. Quite interesting but I don't quite follow the math-doesn't a level reduction alter the DSD bitstream? Can that still be "pure" I know in PCM you can recalculate and if you have enough internal bits it should be "transparent" at least if the reduction is 1 bit (-6 dB).
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/mixing-in-pure-dsd-no-pcm-allowed/
https://positive-feedback.com/interviews/mastering-engineer-tom-caulfield/

Come on getting info from positive feedback is like drinking from the toilet bowl.

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't quite follow the math-doesn't a level reduction alter the DSD bitstream? Can that still be "pure"

It won't be "bit perfect" or mathematically reversible but reasonable adjustments should be audibly perfect.

I know in PCM you can recalculate and if you have enough internal bits it should be "transparent" at least if the reduction is 1 bit (-6 dB).

Of course, it depends what you're starting with. If you have 24-bits you are down to 23-bits... Still around 140dB of dynamic range. With 16-bits reduced to 15-bits you still have about 90dB of dynamic range.

If it's "regular volume control" (without re-amplification) you can't hear the loss of resolution... You can go-down to just a few bits and since probably can't hear anything anyway, you won't hear any loss of quality... Or, if your CD fades to -48dB you are down to 8-bits. With 8-bits at full-volume you can hear the quantization noise and it doesn't sound very good. But with the volume-fade, the quantization noise stays below audibility and it sounds just fine!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Some low end FR differences it appears on the first pair. The 2nd pair were pretty much flat with a slight difference from 80 to 100 hz.

3rd pair is the best match.

 

[Head_Unit]

Come on getting info from positive feedback is like drinking from the toilet bowl.

Hey it works for the dogs! Regardless of how audible* I still find the theory and application interesting. I did email Ed Meitner's company asking why it was important that "DSD-Wide" kept the same sampling rate, but no answer so far. But again, all these things pale compared to the skill of the recording and mastering etc. And also everything ends up PCM if you're doing any room EQ (I supposed time alignment can be done in a 1-bit domain, and bass management analog). In the end if one team loves their DSD workflow and another their PCM, and another is still on analog tape, I could care less as long as the results sound great).

*even if most people can't hear a difference, maybe some on their particular setup can. I doubt I'll ever hear a "pure" comparison, and I run room correction so it matters not to me. I love SACD for some of the great titles, but detest it for the difficulty in ripping. I should probably buy one of those old PlayStation or whatever...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I should probably buy one of those old PlayStation or whatever...

Don't buy the PlayStation for this. It is the worst way to do the ripping.

 

[Galliardist]

DSD256 is a very large file. It MUST sound better, right? File size is the new amplifier price tag.

True, but allow them an intermediate mastering step, and who knows what will result?

(For the record (pun intended), my comment meant "higher quality than the vinyl", not "must have a huge file size")

 

[firedog]

Hey it works for the dogs! Regardless of how audible* I still find the theory and application interesting. I did email Ed Meitner's company asking why it was important that "DSD-Wide" kept the same sampling rate, but no answer so far. But again, all these things pale compared to the skill of the recording and mastering etc. And also everything ends up PCM if you're doing any room EQ (I supposed time alignment can be done in a 1-bit domain, and bass management analog). In the end if one team loves their DSD workflow and another their PCM, and another is still on analog tape, I could care less as long as the results sound great).

*even if most people can't hear a difference, maybe some on their particular setup can. I doubt I'll ever hear a "pure" comparison, and I run room correction so it matters not to me. I love SACD for some of the great titles, but detest it for the difficulty in ripping. I should probably buy one of those old PlayStation or whatever...

Ripping: Nope buy an SACD/blueray player from Sony, Pioneer et all that can be hacked to rip SACD. It's pretty simple, and you can pick up these models used on eBay for between $25-$100. See thread
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/rip-sacd-with-a-blu-ray-player.3652/

There are specific models that work. See thread. Basically you download the hack to a USB stick that connects to the player as a boot up disk. The player boots up and is able to rip SACD's over a digital output. You also have to download the free open source ripping software. Not hard for anyone with relatively minor computer skills.