Recommended hardware for a streaming setup

[crisscross]

Hello,

I am building a music streaming setup, and I would, at some point, like to evolve this to a multi-room music listening setup. We are an all-Apple household with iPhone/Mac and listen to a variety of streaming services like YT Music, and Spotify Premium. I used to have an extensive FLAC/MP3 setup but I don't know if I will ever go back to retrieving that.

The speakers I ordered are the Spirit 4, and I was planning on powering this with a Sonos Amp or the Powernode. I changed my mind after seeing discussions here about the Wiim Pro with a DAC like S.M.S.L A300. Is this the way to go? Are there any other recommendations for powering the speakers?

 

[RosalieTheDog]

Others will comment on the amplification, but if you are intent on buying a DAC or an integrated amplifier, I think the Wiim mini will suit your purposes fine, unless you need the extra features of the Wiim Pro (which I believe is only Chromecast integration?).

 

[direwolf08]

As far as I can tell, the A300 does not have a digital input or built in DAC, though you called it a DAC. SMSL’s DACs usually have a model# that begins with SU or D.

The Wiim Pro Plus has a much better built in DAC than the Mini and the Pro. On the other hand, if this is for more casual listening (ie a zone in a multi-room system or background music while cooking or something), my opinion is that the analog outputs of the Mini or Pro are fine. For instance, I use the analog outputs of the Mini for my bedroom zone and it sounds great to me.

 

[Timcognito]

IMO get started on the cheap then upgrade moving some of the initial stuff to other rooms or family members. Get used to and do more research. Ex: WiiM Pro + Loxjie A30 + SVS SB 1000 Subwoofer

Loxjie A30 Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the multifunction Loxjie A30 power (speaker and headphone) amplifier with integrated USB DAC and Bluetooth input. It was kindly sent to me by a member and costs US $159 plus $7 shipping on Amazon. The A30 sports a high resolution and high contrast...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[radix]

The Yamaha WXA-50 has pretty good stats (88 - 90 dB SINR) vs the A30 (80-83 dB SINR for digital, analog input is much worse).

Review and Measurements of Yamaha WXA-50 Streaming Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Yamaha WXA-50, multi-function DAC, pre-amp, power amp, streaming and multi-room unit. It is on kind loan from a member. Even though it came out a few years ago (2016?), it is widely available. Amazon shows it costs US $478. Success of SONOS...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[crisscross]

Thanks for all the recommendations. Does it make sense to get a receiver instead of the A300? My budget for the Amp/Receiver is around $800, or are they overkill for these speakers?

 

[radix]

You want to pick a system with multiroom. That would be bluesound, wiim, or yamaha (or a roll-your-own, but we'll skip that, or really expensive stuff).

Bluesound powernode is poor performance in the amp. Bluesound powernode edge is ok.

wiim requires an external amp. The A30 is about the same ballpark as the bluesound powernode edge.

Yamaha is a bit better amp than the bluesound or a30, but I think it's multiroom requires playing from their app, so that's not as nice as the bluesound or wiim, unless you get something like a musicast receiver or integerated that can serve. I also don't think Yamaha does Roon, except as Airplay.

If you want to look for an integrated receiver, you still need to pick something that has a multiroom system, unless you plan on putting a node or wiim on it.

Multiroom will be the most limiting feature you asked for, so I think narrowing down which multiroom system you want will then determine most of the rest it.

 

[crisscross]

@radix Thanks for the note. Multi-room is not critical, and I will gladly skip that requirement. I am going through some buyer's remorse with the Spirit 4, and I suspect I will outgrow it soon. I would like an amp/receiver that can handle speaker upgrades and gives me the most room for different sources like streaming music and movies.

 

[radix]

@radix Thanks for the note. Multi-room is not critical, and I will gladly skip that requirement. I am going through some buyer's remorse with the Spirit 4, and I suspect I will outgrow it soon. I would like an amp/receiver that can handle speaker upgrades and gives me the most room for different sources like streaming music and movies.

You might consider active speakers that have an amp built in. Some also have the preamp and streamer built in. Things like the KEF LSX or JBL 4329p (expensive) or kef ls50w. There's also less expensive options that need a streamer, like the jbl 4305/4309 or neumann kh80 or Kali. I'm not sure if any of that fits in your budget, but there are other options (sweetchaos has several google docs on passive and active speaker choices in different budget ranges).

I'm not sure how big your room is or how far away you listen. Really you should start with the room and listening distance, then figure out how big a speaker and how many watts of amp you need. it's like an interior designer will say "start with the rug" and then pick the sofa and then pick the accents. The room and speakers are the biggest effect on the sound, everything else (if of decent quality) has minor effects.

 

[crisscross]

Fair.. Room is 18x14 feet. I need to figure out the listening distance. For now, I am going to stick with the Spirit 4 as I will be out almost $80 in shipping fees both ways. I will probably upgrade to a better set of speakers in a year so my selection choice is just the streamer+amp for now.

 

[radix]

The spirit 4 is rated at 86 dB sensitivity [1]. For a 2m (say 7') listening distance at moderately loud volume (90 dB SPL, like a leaf blower or loud shouting) and a bit of headroom, you need 40 watts. So, a 75-100W amp would probably the the right target. That also matches the speaker's rating of 100W (long term). A 50W amp would likely be fine, as I doubt you would listen at 90 dB with 6 dB of headroom all that often.

if your listening distance is more like 3m (10'), then you need 90W for the same sound level. So a 100W amp would be minimum and the speakers wouldn't handle much more.

Those numbers are all estimate from an on-line calculator [2], YMMV, but it's a decent starting place to scope out what you need.

I don't know how much distortion / resonance those speakers would have if pushed up towards their listed limit. off loading the bass to a sub and putting a filter (crossover) on them would likely help (e.g. a minidsp or in-line high-pass filters or other system with crossover before amplification).

The spirit 4 lists a 42 - 22 kHz frequency response (no guarantee how accurate that is), so a sub would be a good add-on.

[1] https://www.xtzsound.eu/CloudBackend/files/152fce36-495d-4040-8130-b907152a8489.pdf
[2] https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/tools/calculators

 

[crisscross]

Thanks a ton, @radix. The specs of the A30 seem adequate unless I am missing something. Do you recommend a DAC as well?

 

[radix]

If you want to keep the amp separate, then something like the bluesound node (or updated node x) should be good. It has L+R+sub outs (with crossover). If you are going to add in a minidsp, the wiim pro (assuming you want wifi) would work too, as you'd pull the sub off the minidsp.

The Matrix Audio streamers are super nice (e.g. https://www.matrix-digi.com/product/93/mini-i_4), and in the same ballpark price if you don't need wifi, but the Pro is quite a bit more with wifi. They also do not have subout.

New Matrix Audio mini-i 4 and mini-i Pro 4 Streamers.

Not much to say, just that the new mini 4 Series was released today, July 5th of 2023. Roon Ready is still under certification but the specs and new features make this new mini 4 Series the best mini Series so far, and to my point of view, even better than the element i2. Price is cheaper than...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If you get a streamer without subout, you can use RCA Y cables to split the output between speaker amp and sub, but you will be sending the full signal to the speakers, which is not optimal, but not super bad either (again, I don't know how the Spirit 4 would handle it). You could use a minidsp to do the bass management, or if you use the Y cables some in-line 80 Hz high-pass filter RCA plus to do the crossover for you.

With something small like the A30 and the Spirit 4, I wouldn't go for a separate DAC + streamer. I'd try to keep it simple, fewer pieces.

There are other brands like Allo and Gustard, but I don't know their product lines (not that I'm a super expert on others either). I usually build my own from a Raspberry Pi 4+ and Volumio (or similar) software, either with usb out or a HiFiBerry DAC or an SMSL Su-1.

 

[crisscross]

The Matrix is super nice, and I don't need WiFi. I was planning on hooking it up directly to the router. Sorry for the noob question, but how does the setup work? Matrix/Wiim Streamer-A30-Spirit 4?

 

[radix]

The Matrix is super nice, and I don't need WiFi. I was planning on hooking it up directly to the router. Sorry for the noob question, but how does the setup work? Matrix/Wiim Streamer-A30-Spirit 4?

The Matrix is basically a digital preamp. It takes in your sources (e.g. streaming stuff or analog input or computer input) and can adjust the volume and such. It has a remote too. It then has a built-in DAC that would directly feed the A30 with RCA cables. The A30 has normal speaker cables to the Spirit 4. The Wiim would work the same way.

I've not used this setup (matrix or wiim to A30), so cannot speak from experience with it.

If you want to insert a subwoofer, that's where it gets a little more complicated. One approach is to use RCA Y cables so you split the Matrix/Wiim output to both the A30 and the subwoofer. You will need to balance the subwoofers gain (volume) so it blends with the A30/Spirit. This is where. a UMIK-1 and REW is very handy. There's more advanced configs (like using high pass filters or a minidsp).

Or did you mean something else by "setup", like how to configure the matrix or wiim? That's done through the device's app on your phone/tablet.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi
You mentioned the Sonos Amp, or a Bluesound option. That suggests a budget of £600 - £800 (GBP, I'm in the UK). That's plenty.

The Sonos Amp is still worth considering, it's not bad and opens you up to Sonos multi room later. Don't discard this option.

I don't know "YT Music", one of your preferred sources, so that might constrain you ... make sure whatever you choose will play the music you listen to

Alternatively;

A laptop or PC/Mac will give you very flexible streaming, and options for EQ. That EQ could also sort out issues with your speakers (if there are any).

There are plenty of £100-200 DACs, plenty of decent £100-200 Amps, you'll be fine. The Review index here may help as well as recommendations. Don't overspend, you really don't need to.

One new product worth considering is the "WiiM Pro Plus" for streamer and good DAC on one box £220 ish. This also opens you up to multi-room very cheaply (WiiM mini £90) if you want.
You'll need an amp.

Lots of options, but most of them will give you a good result

Don't write off your speakers yet either - get some music playing and see how you feel. Read up on room EQ here, and simple positioning / treatment (e.g. have some furniture in the room)

Enjoy

 

[chelgrian]

The Yamaha WXA-50 has pretty good stats (88 - 90 dB SINR) vs the A30 (80-83 dB SINR for digital, analog input is much worse).

Review and Measurements of Yamaha WXA-50 Streaming Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Yamaha WXA-50, multi-function DAC, pre-amp, power amp, streaming and multi-room unit. It is on kind loan from a member. Even though it came out a few years ago (2016?), it is widely available. Amazon shows it costs US $478. Success of SONOS...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Sadly the Yamaha is discontinued, a lot of MusicCast stuff has been with no replacements.

A WiiM Pro Plus with an amp that can take a 12v trigger or active speakers will do much of the same.

There is some muttering that WiiM's next product will be a streamer with an integrated power amp but nothing confirmed yet.

 

[morillon]

Sadly the Yamaha is discontinued, a lot of MusicCast stuff has been with no replacements.

A WiiM Pro Plus with an amp that can take a 12v trigger or active speakers will do much of the same.

There is some muttering that WiiM's next product will be a streamer with an integrated power amp but nothing confirmed yet.

WiiM Amp

Can you give us timeline when can we expect the next generation wiim after pro plus? Thanks! Hi Smartplug, Team We're excited to announce our upcoming product, the WiiM AMP! Scheduled for public release in Q4 this year, it's sure to impress. Here are some sneak-peek pictures to whet your...

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[crisscross]

Thanks all.. Seems like getting a Sonos Amp for now and replacing it with a Wiim Amp! when it releases later in the year might be the way to go?

 

[JeremyFife]

Thanks all.. Seems like getting a Sonos Amp for now and replacing it with a Wiim Amp! when it releases later in the year might be the way to go?

The Sonos Amp has been well reviewed, that'll be just fine.

Later on (dangerous words!) you may find your choice to be;
Serious sound: upgrade your speakers (which will eventually pull you into an amp upgrade too, but later and after speakers)
More music everywhere: extend your Sonos world to multi-room
More likely: all of the above!

Either way, you'll be happy