Recommended equipment list?

[afinepoint]

I've searched and perhaps missed it. Is there recommended equipment lists somewhere? Items recommended by amir or others knowledgeable others.

I am looking at substitutions for the PS Audio M1200s that were on my purchase list before discovering and understanding ASR. I can get the M1200s for $4200. Let that be the ceiling.

Today its amps. Tomorrow pre amps. Then DACs and so on. Consolidated lists would be nice.

Much appreciated,

afinepoint

 

[flipflop]

Master Audio Review Index

www.audiosciencereview.com

At the top, you can choose between 'Audio Electronics', 'Headphones', and 'Speakers', then sort the list by 'Recommended'.

 

[radix]

There's not a simple list, you need to poke around a bit.

You might want to think about your system from the listening position inward to speakers, amp, preamp, and sources.

How far do you sit from the speakers? How big is the room? How loud do you want it (super loud, loud, moderate, soft)? Do you have a preference on speaker type (big towers + 2 subs, just towers, bookshelf + sub, etc.)? Those questions would then nail down the amount of power you need in the amplifier.

I doubt you really need 600W (1200W into 4-ohm) unless you have super inefficient speakers or are in a giant room. In my dining room, for example, with JBL L100s (new ones) my amp 200W amp rarely goes over 4W for most all the listening we do there.

As far as preamp / dac / sources, I personally consider that mostly a user experience choice, i.e. remote or app functionality, ease of use, friendliness, style. There are many modern devices that are all far beyond audible distortion or noise for rather modest amounts of money. Even SOTA stuff does not need to be very expensive. I, personally, prefer a single regular remote or physical interface and not futz around with an app for most things, so I spent a bit more than necessary for those features.

You would also want to think about using room treatments and/or a DSP. Those can make a giant difference compared to the minor differences in DAC or source performance.

So, my suggestion, is to think about how you would use the system as a whole and what sound level you desire. Then the pieces can fall into place.

Marc

 

[afinepoint]

There's not a simple list, you need to poke around a bit.

You might want to think about your system from the listening position inward to speakers, amp, preamp, and sources.

How far do you sit from the speakers? How big is the room? How loud do you want it (super loud, loud, moderate, soft)? Do you have a preference on speaker type (big towers + 2 subs, just towers, bookshelf + sub, etc.)? Those questions would then nail down the amount of power you need in the amplifier.

I doubt you really need 600W (1200W into 4-ohm) unless you have super inefficient speakers or are in a giant room. In my dining room, for example, with JBL L100s (new ones) my amp 200W amp rarely goes over 4W for most all the listening we do there.

As far as preamp / dac / sources, I personally consider that mostly a user experience choice, i.e. remote or app functionality, ease of use, friendliness, style. There are many modern devices that are all far beyond audible distortion or noise for rather modest amounts of money. Even SOTA stuff does not need to be very expensive. I, personally, prefer a single regular remote or physical interface and not futz around with an app for most things, so I spent a bit more than necessary for those features.

You would also want to think about using room treatments and/or a DSP. Those can make a giant difference compared to the minor differences in DAC or source performance.

So, my suggestion, is to think about how you would use the system as a whole and what sound level you desire. Then the pieces can fall into place.

Marc

Yes, I can't imagine needing 1200W. My speakers are Goldenear Triton One.R which are 4 ohm. I wanted to try a tube circuit and the M1200s were the cheapest yet at my price ceiling. That PSA forum was also quite encouraging.

Thanks

 

[afinepoint]

I just saw a May post asking about recommended lists. Sorry for the duplicity.

 

[MarkS]

As you know, your Goldenar speakers have built-in amps for their bass sections, so you need even less power than usual.

Tube electronics generally either (1) sound the same as solid-state, or (2) add distortion and/or frequency-response variations from neutral. These are often audible, and some people prefer their sound to be colored in this way.

 

[FrantzM]

@afinepoint

Welcome to ASR and please stay. Please drop the idea of a tube circuit anywhere in your audio chain.
I don't know the Golden Ear but I suppose that 500 wpc is a ceiling you don't want to go over, lest your ears and/or speakers are not dear to you.
And you don't need the usual "shrine" with a DAC, then preamp, a plethora of cables to attach all of these and ... and ...
Get a good AVR, I would recommend the Denon AVR-X4800 (a bit partial to Denon).
A pair of 500 wpc Hypex monoblocks, since that is what you want (not what you need ), a bout $1500 for the pair. or scratch that and get a stereo Hypex Class D amp. You can't hear the differences between the "monoblocs" and stereo if these are competently engineered and assembled, in most cases, I would dare say that no one can.
Then learn how to get the best out of Audyssey... No need to purchase anything just yet, it comes with the AVR. Learn how to use it.
Acquire a miniDSP Umik-1 about $125.oo
Then Download REW a wonderful , powerful software. It will cost you the exact sum of $0.oo, I suggest a contribution. Learn to use it , to measure with it. Ask questions here. IT may take a while to get the hang of measuring and how to internet the results.. Hang on..

You are done... for years.

This seemingly short list of "tasks" will take you some times. Acquiring those items is easy. Learning to use them so that your system sounds is a different, more involved, more difficult nut to crack... We would call it , challenge but it is worth it..

 

[Doodski]

@afinepoint I'm not going to dissuade you from tube power amps but Buckeye Amps has great high powered low noise class D power amps in stereo models and mono-blocks too. They come in many colors and even anodizing if you want that prestige and glamor.

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

 

[JeffS7444]

I've searched and perhaps missed it. Is there recommended equipment lists somewhere? Items recommended by amir or others knowledgeable others.

I am looking at substitutions for the PS Audio M1200s that were on my purchase list before discovering and understanding ASR. I can get the M1200s for $4200. Let that be the ceiling.

Today its amps. Tomorrow pre amps. Then DACs and so on. Consolidated lists would be nice.

Much appreciated,

afinepoint

Assuming that it's published performance specifications are an accurate reflection of it's real-world performance, PS M1200 ought to be sonically transparent, which is exactly what you want. Use of a vacuum tube likely means that the amplifiers will be somewhat microphonic, but for the most part, I'd think this would be a "harmless" feature. One caveat to the frequency response spec is that they only reveal it for 4 ohm loads, and it's probably a safe bet that it's performance with 8 ohm speakers won't be quite so impressive.

Power-wise, if you don't have large woofers to drive, you may be buying a lot of excess capacity that you can't use.

Aside from the SINAD ranking (which only consider measured performance and do not make allowances for features you may want), there's really no Recommended Components list here. But general consensus is that reasonably well-designed DACs and amplification tends to sound pretty much the same, with the cost of a pretty good amplifier starting at under 100 USD.

 

[pseudoid]

Hi @afinepoint,
Treat ASR forum as if it was your own personal library.
Every possible effort has been taken to make your own lists and they are but a couple of clicks away.
You will find it more rewarding to make that purchase ($100 or $10000) on your own educated decisions, instead of relying on an 'a la cart' menu.
Then, you can comeback here and brag about it!

 

[Doodski]

instead of relying on an 'a la cart' menu.

This, 'a la cart?'

A La Carte - When The Boys Come Home​

 

[pablolie]

I would not trust recommendations. They don't take personal needs into account, and even here they are not consistent in criteria.

Establish your own needs and preferences, and use the measurements here to eliminate some outliers that have great press but questionable measured virtues.

 

[Doodski]

I think class D is a up to date technology that will save energy and perform great too. Style points are not really high but it's all there otherwise.

 

[Chrispy]

My usual thing is what use are others' recommendations generally? Subjective impressions like you said in another thread comparing to food taste comes to mind. You think reviewers have some sort of magic ears or something more related to particular tastes?

 

[pablolie]

...You think reviewers have some sort of magic ears or something more related to particular tastes?

That's a big "NO" from me. I have biases and experience and I read measurements, but I never recommend equipment. The magic of the audio journey is the personal journey. And this website provides great insights into personal preferences based on the measurements it provides without bias (almost all of the time :-D).

 

[pseudoid]

You will find it more rewarding to make that purchase ($100 or $10000) on your own educated decisions, instead of relying on an 'a la cart' menu.

Lemme refine that a bit more, so that I don't get @Doodski any more excited.
Go for the bang-for-the-buck, or the knee of that other curve, where the equation is based (mostly) on performance-versus-price, and more specifically; at around the -3dB down point, before reaching that point-of-no-return, where price does not do much to the performance (improvements).

 

[Chrispy]

That's a big "NO" from me. I have biases and experience and I read measurements, but I never recommend equipment. The magic of the audio journey is the personal journey. And this website provides great insights into personal preferences based on the measurements it provides without bias (almost all of the time :-D).

I'd prefer to mostly suggest people try different speakers....the electronics matter little IME (particularly SS, don't even want to deal with tubey stuff). Shopping is only so much fun otoh.

 

[solderdude]

Yes, I can't imagine needing 1200W. My speakers are Goldenear Triton One.R which are 4 ohm. I wanted to try a tube circuit and the M1200s were the cheapest yet at my price ceiling. That PSA forum was also quite encouraging.

Thanks

The PSA is not a tube amp though. It is basically a tube buffer + standard class-D which will not work as a 'high power tube amp' as with real tube amps there is, besides a different transfer function of just one tube buffer circuit a real tube amp will also have an interaction with the amp (output resistance).

I would suggest to buy one of the tested power amps and buy a separate tube buffer or something like a Schiit pre so that you can switch between various 'methods' of amplification/adding certain types of distortion.

 

[radix]

If you want to explore the tube sound, try searching for tube amp threads here. You'll find suggestions on reasonably priced tube amps without all the gimmicks. Or you could start a new thread asking for recommendations on that topic.

One thing to consider is if the tube amp has auto-bias or if you need to manually adjust it now and then. If you are not electrically inclined, try to find something with auto-bias. Tube amps = maintenance, either with bias or tube replacement now and then. Personally, I'd likely go with the VTA ST-70 (tubes4hifi.com), but you need to manually adjust bias on those or install a 3rd party auto-bias daughterboard. You can also check out usaudiomart.com (if you're in the US) for used tube amps. You can find Luxman and Conrad Johnson and McIntosh or others there.

 

[Waxx]

Tube buffers don't colour sounds when done right, you need a tube gainstage to do that. But the question is if you would like that, it's a personal preference (i like it, many don't here).

For amps, in worst case scenario you need 650w says the specs, but that is for a very big room. The speaker is 92dB sensitive (2.83v/1m), verified by Stereophile measurements by John Atkinson (so at least in that region). That would give you in theory a max volume of 120dB at 1m (in reality it will be less) for one speaker, 123dB for stereo. In no normal house you will need that kind of power. Mostly you will listen to it at 90dB or less, and take 15dB headroom to avoid distorted transients, so you need an amp that can get 105dB in stereo, 102dB for each speaker. With this speaker that means you need at least 25w to be totally safe. So any power amp that has reasonable power will be enough.

The most neutral amps in general tend to be high quality class D (like Ncore or Purifi based amps) or well executed class AB amps (like the Benchmark AHB2). The latter is expensive but many love it. The former are more powerfull and cheaper, and are made by various builders into very good amps. Fancy looking ones like the Nad M23 are as expensive as the PS audio M1200, but a lot better. But the same sound quality can be yours for a lot less, in more basic looks builds like those from Audiophonics (HPA-S400ET Sparkos) that uses the same amplifier module and a toplevel driving system) for less than halve that price. And Audiphonics is only one builder who does that kind of things, in the US it's better to go to local builders that do the same like Boxem, Nord and Buckeye. Many of those are tested here and can be found in the review section of this site. Ncore (old series) are a bit less quality on numbers, but still good enough to not make the difference matter in reality. New Ncore (Ncore X or Nilai) is on level with Purifi but slightly different.

But even a lot of the cheaper class D amps will beat that PS audio with easy on good sound, for a tiny fraction of the price. But you won't have that shiny fancy box arround it. You can find enough tests of them in the test section. From a sinad of 95 to 100dB and is (relative) neutral in it's frequency response it gets in the "it does not matter anymore" zone.

And you will have a bigger improvement of sound with a good dsp with room correction like the minidsp flex with dirac, than with any amp change. Tubes in a system do good things for people who like harmonic distortion, but they are not a magical bullet for good sound. Dsp is neither, but has a lot more possiblities than the one trick pony that tubes are. And you can use both in one system if you wish (i do).

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