Reasonably priced good quality 6 or 8 channel USB DAC?

[JustIntonation]

Faster progress than I usually make on my projects.

Maybe in the spring I'll be able to actually make the SB12PAC25 + SB26ADC minimonitors I've been planning...

Hehe
Btw, I don't want to make thing more complicated for you but if in case with minimonitors you mean that they'll be used as nearfield monitors, I personally have bad experience with tweeters with a phase plug for nearfield monitoring.. Both for the sound and especially also for their radiation pattern which doesn't work well for nearfield monitoring as when you move your head slightly off axis the tweeter with phase plug usually gets brighter. I found this very annoying. (for normal far field in a live room this doesn't give a problem of course)

 

[andreasmaaan]

Dove in a bit more into the way it handles the signal an convinced myself it should have perfect imaging and any artifacts from 2 clocks for left and right should be inaudible.

Nice. What swung you on this question?

 

[maverickronin]

Both for the sound and especially also for their radiation pattern which doesn't work well for nearfield monitoring as when you move your head slightly off axis the tweeter with phase plug usually gets brighter.

I'll keep that in mind in case I need to remove them.

The SB26ADC should be able to cross over super low though, which is the main attraction.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I'll keep that in mind in case I need to remove them.

The SB26ADC should be able to cross over super low though, which is the main attraction.

FWIW, I haven’t seen any measurements of the SB26ADC that suggest it suffers much from this problem...

 

[JustIntonation]

Nice. What swung you on this question?

Couple of things. First of all, the maximum "distance" change is very small, but even then can't be compared to moving you head as this will make the sound bounce of your ears differently which is a large part how we localize sound but with this the tweeter doesn't move of course.
Secondly as this clock "mis-syncing" is random it shouldn't ever sound like its max error I'm guessing.
And thirdly, I get to try it out and if there is a difference I have two weeks to send the Fusion amps back thanks to EU consumer laws, so it's risk free..
And I just really want to hear the NCore amps, I think the risk is greater of spending more on the other option yet ending up with a slightly inferior result due mainly to the amp differences between NCore and the AMS amps.
That was pretty much my reasoning + lower cost and included DSP

 

[maverickronin]

FWIW, I haven’t seen any measurements of the SB26ADC that suggest it suffers much from this problem...

I haven't either, but what distance is dispersion usually measured at? I can imagine it being different at 12-18 inches.

The diffuser is built into the removable face plate anyway so there's plenty of room to fix it if it's actually an issue.

 

[JustIntonation]

FWIW, I haven’t seen any measurements of the SB26ADC that suggest it suffers much from this problem...

Hmm indeed.. Sorry I should have checked before I wrote. I automatically assumed this was so for all phase plug tweeters based on my experiences with 3 of them (phase plug tweeters, not this specific one)

 

[Deleted member 65]

You'll be having three clocks: Armature Hecate & 2 * Hypex FA123. No way to make any of them acting Master?

 

[andreasmaaan]

You'll be having three clocks: Armature Hecate & 2 * Hypex FA123. No way to make any of them acting Master?

Unfortunately not with the FA123 as far as I understand...

 

[andreasmaaan]

Couple of things. First of all, the maximum "distance" change is very small, but even then can't be compared to moving you head as this will make the sound bounce of your ears differently which is a large part how we localize sound but with this the tweeter doesn't move of course.
Secondly as this clock "mis-syncing" is random it shouldn't ever sound like its max error I'm guessing.
And thirdly, I get to try it out and if there is a difference I have two weeks to send the Fusion amps back thanks to EU consumer laws, so it's risk free..
And I just really want to hear the NCore amps, I think the risk is greater of spending more on the other option yet ending up with a slightly inferior result due mainly to the amp differences between NCore and the AMS amps.
That was pretty much my reasoning + lower cost and included DSP

All seems quite reasonable!

Tbh, you’d swung me round in previous posts to accepting that this was a real issue

 

[Deleted member 65]

Unfortunately not with the FA123 as far as I understand...

Not sure if below only is applicable in the Remote context:

 

[JustIntonation]

Not sure if below only is applicable in the Remote context:

View attachment 19110

This master / slave thing with the Fusion amps is for volume / settings / remote control. Not for the SPDIF clock.
The way it works is that the SPDIF signal is simply copied to all amps and a volume/control signal imposed upon this. The individual plate amps then resample the incoming SPDIF with an asynchronous resampler at 93.x kHz. But the clocks of these asynchronous resamplers are not synced between amps so there is some random timing error between them (which is only for a very short time, no continues drifting).
I can't really tell if this will be borderline audible or not. I'm hoping and guessing now that it's not but only a listening test will tell.

 

[JustIntonation]

Btw, as far as my new doubts about the Anaview AMS amps. After reading up a bit about their (lack of) input stage I connected them (AMS0100 here) unblanced and then balanced and compared the sound and the difference is so large it sounds like a different amp (first noticeable thing when connecting balanced is way more deep bass). Also a difference in sound between short and long (7m) cables.
They sound sweet and the mids take the center stage (though not "forward" sounding) but I'm now thinking that perhaps the treble and deep bass are not that hmm neutral? as they could be.. It's a bit forgiving sounding perhaps. Though I don't really know.. I don't have a better amp to compare it to. And don't have great speakers here now, going by bad speakers and memory of reasonably good speakers a few years back with them.
But the main scare is how much they change in sound depending on how you hook them up.. This also basically means that most reviews of these amps online are "coloured" as there are different ways people are connecting these..

 

[JustIntonation]

Since there was talk in this thread about the possibility of a delay between two Hypex Fusion amps I'll update it.
Calculated that in the worst case scenario the non synced clocks of two Fusion amps would not be audible on the ASRC, but then started getting worried again about the PLL's in the digital receiver of the ASRC and not knowing the algorithm they used for jitter reduction if they could cause an audible delay.

So I sent an email to Hypex asking these questions.
And in a few days I got a reply. They took the time to measure it for me! What a fantastic company!
And I'm happy to say, the delay is not there! Or atleast so small it is irrelevant.
As attachment the measurements.

It really looks like these plate amps are doing just everything right!

 

[JustIntonation]

Hypex Fusion amps (FA123) are in!
And they sound fantastic!!
Had a bit of a scare at first as I managed to set one amp up wrongly the first half hour (had one set to left+right after some messing around after one amp didn't produce sound after resetting itself to -96dB after uploading the presets or setting it to slave don't know what caused it, didn't pick it up when sitting off center over the other effects it gave.) But after correcting my mistake endless clean controlled unhyped sound
Also now realize in comparison that the Anaview AMS0100 most certainly does not measure flat! There's something going on with what I guess is the lack of input stage that does not match with a normal output impedance of 100 - 150 Ohm of DACs, the response it tilted to the warm side with a loose exaggerated sub bass (did sound good though with my temporary speakers / setup but I can easily boost the subbass with EQ on the FA123 to similar effect).

 

[JustIntonation]

Few more hours of playing bass heavy music. And these amps are unlike anything I heard in the bass.
Listening with cheap ported 2 ways now and the Ncore amps are making them sound like closed speakers. Very tight control which doesn't go away even when boosting the bass and playing very loud. There simply severaly less "overhang". Don't know how this can be as for instance the AMS0100 has almost as good a damping factor in the specs as the Ncore but there's a very big difference nontheless in sound.
Anyhow my search that started this thread is over Could not be happpier with the Fusion amp, DACs, DSP, amps all done fantastically well.

 

[Biblob]

Great to hear!
How would one make te Anaview AMS0100 amp work then? Is there a way to minimize the effect of no input-stage?

 

[JustIntonation]

Great to hear!
How would one make te Anaview AMS0100 amp work then? Is there a way to minimize the effect of no input-stage?

By adding an input stage or by using a DAC with very low output impedance (I guess a DAC with output that doubles as headphone output, many measurements here on this forum done by Amir). I personally don't have much knowledge of electronics couldn't tell you what input stage to build.
But I'd actually like to see measurements of the AMS0100 done by Amir (or someone else). If I lived in the USA I'd send mine to Amir for testing but I live in Europe. I don't trust the AMS0100 anymore myself. Don't know what was used to get to the measurements posted in the documentation by Anaview (which are almost as good as for Hypex NCore).
Btw I'll be comparing the AMS0100 connected to the Anedio D2 (100 Ohm output impedance) and to an Hifime 9018D which has a stated output impedance of 2 Ohm. I'll post here if this makes the big difference. It should if the sound I'm getting from the AMS0100 is due to the lack of input stage. If it doesn't make a big difference then I have no idea what's the cause of the sound of the AMS0100..

 

[JustIntonation]

By adding an input stage or by using a DAC with very low output impedance (I guess a DAC with output that doubles as headphone output, many measurements here on this forum done by Amir). I personally don't have much knowledge of electronics couldn't tell you what input stage to build.
But I'd actually like to see measurements of the AMS0100 done by Amir (or someone else). If I lived in the USA I'd send mine to Amir for testing but I live in Europe. I don't trust the AMS0100 anymore myself. Don't know what was used to get to the measurements posted in the documentation by Anaview (which are almost as good as for Hypex NCore).
Btw I'll be comparing the AMS0100 connected to the Anedio D2 (100 Ohm output impedance) and to an Hifime 9018D which has a stated output impedance of 2 Ohm. I'll post here if this makes the big difference. It should if the sound I'm getting from the AMS0100 is due to the lack of input stage. If it doesn't make a big difference then I have no idea what's the cause of the sound of the AMS0100..

Sorry for the late reply.
I haven't compared the AMS0100 with the D2 vs the Hifime 9018D as after overturning my house twice I can't find the minijack to XLR cable I once had (only input I have on my AMS0100 is XLR) so can't hook up the 9018D. Also been too occupied with my speaker build.
What I can add is that I've compared the AMS0100 vs the Hypex Fusion with my new Satori WO24P-4 woofer and that the difference is much more clear now than before. The AMS0100 makes a mess of things, wooly, uncontrolled, coloured whereas the with the Fusion it's very dark, clean, dynamic, etc. Very impressive. Whether this is because of the AMS0100 not handling the 100 or so ohm output impedance of the D2 (likely I think) or because of some other reason I still can't tell. But I'm actually not that interested in testing any further I'm noticing. The AMS0100 will get a good home in my mothers audio system who has an uncritical home system where it'll do fine.

 

[JustIntonation]

And in case anybody is following this thread because of interest in multichannel DACs as that's how this thread got started.
I got an email from Okto Research as I'm still on their list and I read that @amirm has the Okto Research DAC8 for testing
And there are several models of the DAC8, the DAC8 PRO, DAC8 DSP, DAC8 Stereo and the DAC8 Module. https://www.oktoresearch.com
Not for me anymore as I'm in love with the Fusion amps but they sure look nice!