Question about choosing DAC and so on

[Magnifico]

WHY do you guys discuss about taste? That´s nonsense !!!

 

[TomB19]

How about showing us where anyone talked about "filtering out" the OP's music? I recommended he try a couple of known great recordings of highly detailed material.

Meanwhile, if he is running something like a Sennheiser HD 58X, he can improve the detail a tiny bit by removing the foam from the back of the housing.

There may be things that can be done to help the OP but we need more information from Mr. SweetStone.

 

[TomB19]

WHY do you guys discuss about taste? That´s nonsense !!!

In this case, the source material is legitimately being scrutinized.

If something from Beck's - Morning Phase (or Tool or any known great recording) has the detail the OP craves but Tears for Fears - Everybody Wants to Rule the World does not, that is a key piece of information.

I love 80s music too. I listen to it all the time. I've found it isn't best enjoyed on the most revealing headphones. That's why I keep a pair of less revealing headphones around to listen to that material. He could also put some foam in the back of his cans to tone them down a bit and create a warm and smooth experience.

I've found that when people call a headphone "wide" or "detailed", it probably has elevated high frequency response. A headphone described as warm and smooth probably has slightly recessed highs, particularly in the 3-5k region.


Isolated so Fluffy can quote this easily:

The actual detail coming out of a headphone is probably pretty similar in all cases from dynamic to planars and pretty much all brands. They sound vastly different but I think nearly all of the perceived sonic variance comes from response curve and comfort (for the bulk of the decent quality headphone market).

 

[Magnifico]

No! No! No!
There is nothing that justifies to discuss someones taste. NEVER!
Even if somebody wants to hear scratches, sledgehammer or hiss in the best quality possible it´s none of my business.
I can reget he does this to such a fine peace of tech but that´s all.

 

[TomB19]

No! No! No!
There is nothing that justifies to discuss someones taste. NEVER!
Even if somebody wants to hear scratches, sledgehammer or hiss in the best quality possible it´s none of my business.
I can reget he does this to such a fine peace of tech but that´s all.

Please help me out.

i've been listening to Bring Crosby with the Paul Whiteman orchestra and find the high frequencies lacking and no real signal below 200 Hz.

If you can help me fix my system, that would be magnifico.

 

[Fluffy]

How about showing us where anyone talked about "filtering out" the OP's music? I recommended he try a couple of known great recordings of highly detailed material.

I was mostly addressing a general mindset I've seen repeated in many places. What you said alluded to that and can be interpreted like that.

Isolated so Fluffy can quote this easily:

The actual detail coming out of a headphone is probably pretty similar in all cases from dynamic to planars and pretty much all brands. They sound vastly different but I think 99% of the perceived sonic variance comes from response curve and comfort (for the bulk of the decent quality headphone market).

You know it just takes marking text with the mouse and clicking the "reply" pop-up, right?

Anyway, I agree that frequency response plays a part in that, but there are other factors with headphones (and transducers in general). Resonances and damping is a major factor, as an uncontrolled driver/vibrating housing can add ringing that decrease the perceived detail. That's why open headphones are often preferred, as the driver is moving more freely and interacting less with the cup. Also, harmonic distortion decreases apparent detail if it's high enough.

 

[TomB19]

You know it just takes marking text with the mouse and clicking the "reply" pop-up, right?

Your convenience is my primary concern.

Happy listening, Fluffy.

 

[Magnifico]

I always say the most important thing is the reproducing device.
If this device is lacking of skills....everything is lost.

So i´d start with that device to talk about.

The DAC if it´s not a horrible one is pretty much the end of the road.
I have heard several stuff now....
DX3 Pro, ES100, Fiio BTR5, Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master(Es9118), MSI X570 MEG Ace (Es9018), Topping D50s, SMSL M6, SMSL M100, SMSL M300.
M300 sounds best out of all of them....must say I like AKM chips better it seems.
D50s, M6,M100 and M300 and BTR5 sound an edge better. Within this ground I´d have to listen VERY carefully to divide them.
Especially those with AK4452 sounded very much the same.
I have to say the M6 is really good seeing I got it for ca. 140€. But it had to go, since there is something horribly wrong with the auto off function of the display leaving me with no display at all every now and then...Even unplugging didn´t help then. But other than that....DX3 pro needs to be A LOT better to make up for it´s price tag. M6 is 172€ usually here in germany. DX3 pro is 220€.
The DX3 pro is the better device though...that´s for sure. But I´m also sure not everyone would need this little extra in quality.


@TomB19: BTW I´m a child of the 80s too....more or less
Dude you need to hear FLAC of that remastered stuff. You hear any imperfection...some hate it....I find it interesting....If I don´t want THOSE details....I use my Beyerdynamics Custom One Pro Plus. It´s like a filter
Though it´s still a good headset.

 

[TomB19]

I always say the most important thing is the reproducing device.
If this device is lacking of skills....everything is lost.

So i´d start with that device to talk about.

The DAC if it´s not a horrible one is pretty much the end of the road.
I have heard several stuff now....
ES100, Fiio BTR5, Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master(Es9118), MSI X570 MEG Ace (Es9018), Topping D50s, SMSL M6, SMSL M100, SMSL M300.
M300 sounds best out of all of them....must say I like AKM chips better it seems.
D50s, M6,M100 and M300 and BTR5 sound an edge better. Within this ground I´d have to listen VERY carefully to divide them.
Especially those with AK4452 sounded very much the same.

PC is Linux 5.3/Clementine/pulseaudio (I'm confident it is bit perfect)
DAC -> Topping D50s
Amp -> Topping A50 (mostly)
Headphones -> Hifiman HE4xx

Which item should I upgrade to get the detail and bass I want out of the 1927 Bing Crosby/Paul Whiteman recording I cited?


Magnifico, I'm being deliberately obtuse. I think my equipment is probably sufficient for reproducing a shellac recording from 1926.

The point being, there is only so much bandwidth in the original recording. More cannot be had. There were some horrible recordings in the 1980s of material that is close to my heart.

IMO, the industry was too quick to go digital. The last of the analog records were better than the first of the digitally mastered recordings.

These days, digital is a miracle. DSD and high resolution PCM are a revelation but 80s recordings are bloody horrible.

I have some Telarc CDs from back in the day. They were the best humanity could do, at the time. Their claim to fame was their leading edge sound quality. Time has revealed those recordings are not on the same level as a well done, contemporary, recording.

 

[Magnifico]

I´ve learned my DT1990s became FREE when I got the SP200.
It felt like FINALLY the power is there in any situation. I´m not only talking of final volume making my head explode if I tried to

So am AMP with power resources does some tricks too. And sorry...if those numbers are true....A50 is a piece of crap!
So little power....
I´m sure it sounds refined but it relies on headphones with very little hunger for power. It could NEVER drive a DT1990.

Go and buy a atom amp or better this one:
https://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten/magni-heresy-headphone-amp-and-preamp.html
This this is a no brainer bought right away for the price.
It does even beat my SP200 in some points I saw.

If I´m not mistaken the Hifiman HE4xx is a fine piece of tech....but not a killer when it comes to bass.
Again I can advise the DT1990. With it´s other skills....it has a phenomeal bass to my liking. But it´s special....the Beyerdynamic hump can be a bitch for many.
Totally blows away the COPP in that regards.
The Hifiman HE4xx does have more bass than the COPP I understood so far....but DT1990s have even just MORE.
Ether better precision or better punch was with the Hifiman I´ve got to admit.

You may watch Joshua Valor videos on you tube on the headphones. Of course yours too to get a feeling the person Joshoa Valor.
Forgive him he is human and so he has personal preferences....but currently I like him a lot testing headphones.
DMX is a good adress too.

But honestly....go and buy that "Schiit"
Whatever headphone you will be using....it needs enough power to get moving.

 

[TomB19]

For what it's worth, I don't find the Topping A50 lacking in power. It would be interesting to see an objective review of it with the full battery of Amirm testing but it sounds like he's pretty slammed with other work.

Given the OP is using a DX3 Pro DAC and THX 789 amplifier, I highly doubt his DAC or amp are hindering his SQ in any way.

I also doubt his headphones are limiting the detail he is getting. Any decent headphone built in the last couple of years is capable of reproducing tremendous detail. I think it comes down to response curve preference. To that end, flipflop was spot on with post #2 in this thread with his equalization suggestion. EqAPO might just be the magic bullet Mr. SweetStone is looking for.

 

[Magnifico]

THX789 has the same power like my SP200 I think.
oh my....SORRY....I looked at the wrong numbers....I take it back....A50 has enough power....not overly plenty....but enough for many headphones.

So not enough power is no problem of the op no discussion there. His DX3 Pro can´t compete with your D50s on other hand.
But won´t be that huge of a problem making sound headphones thin. I remember my DT1990s thinner with the DX3 pro. But then again....I had no SP200 and the new Pads on the DT1990s.

I´m absolutely no fan of EQs. I don´t use any. I disliked using one before I got the filter for the DT1990s.
They can help massively fixing things. But I like sound as intended.
IF the artist chooses to use low levels of bass....so may it be.

If it is the recording causing the problem...from my point of view I´d look for a fix for the recording but not the tech working fine.


/EDIT: I´ve read the whole threat now....I have no idea why your idea of trying something proven to have detail to test the used gear got blown so much out of proportion. I don´t think you judged the OPs taste in any way.
My fault I jumped on someone others train. My apologies.

Fluffy was not helpful in any way and brought the op away from the problem.
Check your gear or check your source. Ignoring the fact you can find problems either way is just dumb.
There is no word of changing someones taste in music in any way.

So the OP really should try a detail monster like a DT1990. If a DT1990 can´t deliver enough detail....something is horribly wrong.
Even really bad cables would be possible.
But if it´s the source...DT1990s don´t do magic....and so there may be no reason to upgrade to a detail monster headphone.

 

[sejarzo]

IF the artist chooses to use low levels of bass....so may it be.

There's really no telling what that level of bass, mids, or highs sounded like to the producer and artist on those particular monitors in that control room or that mastering studio (where the artist was likely not even involved.)

When I was in college, you heard music ALL the time walking down the halls in the residences, because everybody had speaker rigs and rarely if ever listened on cans. We've had kids in college for the past 12+ years, and you don't hear music in the residences now. Why? Because the overwhelming majority of listeners use IEMs now--and we all know that IEMs are all over the place in bass response.

Lately it seems the error in balance is far on the other end from what you describe. I love Lake Street Dive's music, but as far as I am concerned, most of their CDs suck because the bass level is insanely high in the mix, and I assume that's because the decision is now made to produce music for IEMs. So I cut the bass back so it's listenable and it does not overpower the details that are there in the mids and highs.

 

[Hugo9000]

Please help me out.

i've been listening to Bring Crosby with the Paul Whiteman orchestra and find the high frequencies lacking and no real signal below 200 Hz.

If you can help me fix my system, that would be magnifico.

May I suggest taking Mr. Crosby's own advice, and using Philco gear?

Here's one in action! (An Artie Shaw recording is used for the demonstration, but I think you can imagine how delightful it would be with Bing Crosby's many hit records!) Please excuse the poor quality of the youtube video and sound, I suspect the Philco device itself has higher fidelity than the potato used for the video!

 

[Magnifico]

and yet i keep the things they are...if they boom their music....so may it be....if i don´t like it....i don´t listen to it. Just like that.
You obviously use EQs all the time....I don´t. (almost)Nerver!
From my point of view what you´re doing is wrong. But hey....do whatever you want.

 

[sejarzo]

and yet i keep the things they are...if they boom their music....so may it be....if i don´t like it....i don´t listen to it. Just like that.
You obviously use EQs all the time....I don´t. (almost)Nerver!
From my point of view what you´re doing is wrong. But hey....do whatever you want.

OK, but if their first couple of albums sound right to me when it comes to balance, and those sound like they or similar groups sound live, and the last two albums have boomy bass that's totally unlike anything I have ever heard from an acoustic group...methinks that it's not really an "artistic decision" but a screw up in the production process. They have released live versions of their songs on the web that have far less bass content than the original studio version, too. Who was wrong in that case?

Say I have a CD from the early 90s of an LP that I loved during the early 70s, and I need to boost the low end because it sounds way too thin. Am I wrong? What if that same CD was remastered in 2010, and now I don't need to EQ it because they fixed the problems in the balance? Does that make my decision to EQ the inferior mix suddenly correct?

 

[SweetStone]

Perhaps I'm the only one who considers the 70s to 90s pop/rock to be a red flag.

I listen to a lot of this era and it is dominated with heartbreaking recordings of amazing material.

I suspect Mr. SweetStone is looking for detail that is simply not there.

He might be happier with a headphone that has less detail but is warm and smooth as butter, like something from AKG or Beyer.

Thanks for your opinion. You know, when we listen music of Blur, Oasis, Libertines I think there is no necessity for looking detail. But I feel enchanced instrument location in space and detail when I hear Pink Floyd's Time, Comfortably Numb, etc. And they are the most listened songs also I listen many genres like jazz, acoustic, pop, rock, ost, and so on. So I want more detailed sound when listening. Of course, my favorites are most in 70's~90's.

 

[SweetStone]

I suggest you audition a good quality, contemporary, recording from artists like Tool, Beck, etc.

Thank you for recommmendation

 

[SweetStone]

If you´d buy a Topping D90 to have more detailed music....try a
- Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro
- Brainwavz Gaming Earpads (https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/collections/earpads-round-xl/products/gaming-earpads-xl)
- SolderDudes passive filters (https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/passive-filters/)

The Dt1990 pro is very analytical with the passive filter you can get rid of the beyerdynamic hump and the brainwavz eapads make it lot more fun to listen to. If you want it even more clean....stick to the factory delivered pads.
That is as detailed and analytical as it gets my friend.

A different Dac might improve the sound too a bit, but surely not as much as different headphones.
The SMSL M300 seem like the sweetspot (price to sound) currently.
Once Ben gets his stuff sorted out his LA-QXD1 this thing is an alternative...
What more could you want...SMSL with AKM and Soncoz with ESS. Freedom of choice.
Other better DACs didn´t impress me from the measurement point of view.
At least not close to those two formerly mentioned Dacs

Thanks to your recommendation! When I listened DT770, it gave me fun and proper high-pitched sound. But it's a shame that bass is shallow in depth. I hear other different models of beyerdynamic have upper-midrange shout so I give up them early.

I will have to compare Edition XX's FR XX to DT1990's. Can I ask a question if DT1990 is suit for all-round genre?

 

[TomB19]

Are you running Hifiman XX?