power supplies for streamers

[blanc]

Hi,

I’m looking for a 12V power adapter for streamers such as iFi iPower2 but the current capacity of 1.8A is too low. Can anyone suggest an adapter of 3A? By the way, how much can streamer performance be influenced by power supplies?

 

[Purité Audio]

If the streamer is properly designed then not a jot, check out Amir’s reviews/measurements.
Keith

 

[somebodyelse]

What streamer needs 36W?

The reliable component suppliers have a range, often with filters so you can narrow down the voltage and current choices. CPC/Farnell, RS, DigiKey, Mouser, Conrad to name a few.
https://cpc.farnell.com/w/c/electri...ent_output_1=3.5A|3.33A|3.34A|3A&sort=P_PRICE

 

[MaxwellsEq]

12V power adapter for streamers such as iFi iPower2 but the current capacity of 1.8A is too low

In what way is it too low and how have you discovered this? 20W seems quite a lot to me.

 

[akamatsu]

Power supplies can have a huge impact on sound quality. But the power supply has to truly be better than the one being replaced. Swapping one transformer for another may not be an improvement.

 

[voodooless]

Power supplies can have a huge impact on sound quality.

Citation needed I would say.

 

[akamatsu]

Citation needed I would say.

I'm just speaking from my own experience, and the experience of others that I know. I'm also talking about SMPS replacing a transformer, and an improved design SMPS. I recently had the power supply (SMPS) in my streamer replaced with a better version. It made a huge difference.

 

[voodooless]

It made a huge difference.

And obviously you made a properly controlled test setup to verify that what you hear is actually real?

 

[akamatsu]

And obviously you made a properly controlled test setup to verify that what you hear is actually real?

I don't mess about with that. I only go for upgrades that are obviously an improvement. In this case, I trust the manufacturer as they are a real engineering company that doesn't release a product unless it is clearly better than what is being replaced. They did all the testing.

But my point is that there is improvement available with power supplies. I'm not talking about transformers. There are no transformers in my entire system. There is technical merit in improving a SMPS. It stands to reason that two different designs would perform differently, and one would be better than the other. If one sees no merit in this, then don't bother.

 

[voodooless]

In this case, I trust the manufacturer as they are a real engineering company that doesn't release a product unless it is clearly better than what is being replaced. They did all the testing.

Okay, so then they surely can back up their claims with anything other than flowery language?

There are no transformers in my entire system.

Sure there are. SMPSes also have transformers, just much smaller ones.

 

[staticV3]

There is technical merit in improving a SMPS. It stands to reason that two different designs would perform differently, and one would be better than the other. If one sees no merit in this, then don't bother.

There are certainly differences in performance between SMPSs.

That this difference materializes audibly at the Streamer's/DDC's/DAC's output however is exceedingly unlikely and would be an indication of a fundamentally flawed product.

Therefore, any claims about sonic improvements due to an upgraded SMPS need something more than empty words to deserve attention.

It doesn't matter if those empty words come directly from the manufacturer.

 

[akamatsu]

Okay, so then they surely can back up their claims with anything other than flowery language?


Sure there are. SMPSes also have transformers, just much smaller ones.

Again, if you don't see any technical merit here, then don't bother looking into it. I'm just sharing my experience. I'm an engineer into audio/music for decades. I'm well aware of my own expectation bias. I think the more scientific approach would be to treat what I'm saying as a data point. There are so many variables. The challenge would be to come up with a hypothesis that captures all the valid data.

 

[akamatsu]

There are certainly differences in performance between SMPSs.

That this difference materializes audibly at the Streamer's/DDC's/DAC's output however is exceedingly unlikely and would be an indication of a fundamentally flawed product.

Therefore, any claims about sonic improvements due to an upgraded SMPS need something more than empty words to deserve attention.

It doesn't matter if those empty words come directly from the manufacturer.

I didn't think the old power supply was flawed when I listened to music. But after I got the new one, I wasn't so sure.

 

[DonR]

Again, if you don't see any technical merit here, then don't bother looking into it. I'm just sharing my experience. I'm an engineer into audio/music for decades. I'm well aware of my own expectation bias. I think the more scientific approach would be to treat what I'm saying as a data point. There are so many variables. The challenge would be to come up with a hypothesis that captures all the valid data.

Your listening experience is not a data point. If swapping a reasonably designed power supply with another made a measurable difference then the problem lies in the consuming unit, not the power supply.

 

[VintageFlanker]

I'm an engineer into audio/music for decades. I'm well aware of my own expectation bias.

No you are not. That is the whole thing about expectation bias.

 

[voodooless]

The challenge would be to come up with a hypothesis that captures all the valid data.

No, the challenge is getting valid data in the first place. Your observations are not.

I'm well aware of my own expectation bias.

Being aware of them doesn’t magically make you switch them off or filter them out. You (or anyone) can’t do that.

 

[kemmler3D]

I think the more scientific approach would be to treat what I'm saying as a data point.

Nothing personal, but ASR doesn't buy into sonic differences (where none are normally expected) unless there are numbers to back them up. In this case, personal anecdotes are not enough to change the prevailing view that power supplies shouldn't make a difference in the output, unless the streamer was designed wrong in the first place. That's possible, and it would be interesting to see basic measurements demonstrating that.

There are plenty of tests on this site showing no difference in output from cleaning up power going into decent gear, none showing major (read: audible) improvements.

If you take expectation bias seriously, then you must realize it's the more likely explanation for what you heard. Expectation bias isn't something that happens to other people - it's something that happens to people, period.

 

[A Surfer]

No you are not. That is the whole thing about expectation bias.

Exactly. I find it shocking that an engineer, presumably educated would have such a blind spot.

 

[akamatsu]

No you are not. That is the whole thing about expectation bias.

I am aware that I am subject to expectation bias. I am aware that I can't turn it off. It's there all the time.

This is my experience of my own awareness. If this isn't awareness, then so be it.

 

[akamatsu]

Nothing personal, but ASR doesn't buy into sonic differences (where none are normally expected) unless there are numbers to back them up. In this case, personal anecdotes are not enough to change the prevailing view that power supplies shouldn't make a difference in the output, unless the streamer was designed wrong in the first place. That's possible, and it would be interesting to see basic measurements demonstrating that.

There are plenty of tests on this site showing no difference in output from cleaning up power going into decent gear, none showing major (read: audible) improvements.

If you take expectation bias seriously, then you must realize it's the more likely explanation for what you heard. Expectation bias isn't something that happens to other people - it's something that happens to people, period.

I'm not trying to change the prevailing view. I'm just sharing my experience.

As for cleaning up power before it goes into decent gear, to me, that is not a valid way to improve sound quality and products claiming to do so are pure snake oil. It makes no sense as the power supply in the kit will generate it's own noise. This is then filtered, at much lower voltage than what's entering the kit. From an engineering standpoint, it makes no sense.

I know what you are saying about expectation bias, and I do take it seriously. I don't expect anyone to take my word for anything. However, someone here may see the technical merit and see that it may warrant further investigation.