Power amplifier tests with respect to FTC: 16 CFR Part 432 (July 5, 2024) requirements on output power claims

[Astoneroad]

That said, regulatory bodies do care. They care about their funding, their work and their regulations and they love to be informed about organizations/people/companies trying to skirt, deceive, and blatantly lie their way around the regulations they created. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say.

Perhaps they did, the plan is they will not shortly, Jan. 15th, according to the transitional report that I've cited here before. FTC 2025 Page 872

Another regulatory body, the FDA, in charge of drugs, vaccinations, etc., is about to be headed by a guy with a dead brain worm he got from eating roadkill. Brain Worm

This is an entirely new paradigm, in the U.S. To use a previous (2024) version in your equation is unlike your historically consistent dogmatic adhesion to hard realities, imo. By all means, if you fight the good fight, just remember the Bay of Pigs, where backup that was promised never came and all that passion and cause died on the beach.

 

[restorer-john]

This amplifier came out after the updated FTC regulations became effective. It doesn't conform to the regulation. Report them.

P282 Stereo Power Amplifier – March Audio

The P262 is a Purifi based stereo power amplifier. This simply elegant product is milled from solid aluminium with a tough anodized treatment. Exceptional fit, finish and build quality. Class leading technical and subjective audio performance.

marchaudio.com

Dude, his excuse is he doesn't sell or advertise in the US. And to be fair, that's (sadly) reasonable. I have no dog in that fight, I don't live in the US and I've experienced no loss from his products meeting or not meeting the current FTC requirements.

Should March be required to specify according to the regulations of a country doesn't even live in? I guess not.

Me, I'd pick the single biggest, toughest and most onerous requirements of a market I wanted to conquer, meet them all and advertise that. But that's just me.

 

[pjug]

Those of us who care to test amplifiers properly will continue to do so. We will report the ones that cannot meet their advertised ratings, either here, somewhere else, to the regulatory bodies that may be interested, or the punters that are buyers. Amir can do whatever he likes. I don't care.

ASR is just a fringe enthusiasts' website. It has zero presence outside our little obsessive bubble of an echo chamber. We are fringe, let's be honest. Arguments that seem important here, are nothing in the real world. Nobody actually cares until the chit they bought fails inexplicably.

That said, regulatory bodies do care. They care about their funding, their work and their regulations, and they love to be informed about organizations/people/companies trying to skirt, deceive, and blatantly lie their way around the regulations they created. They take it as a personal impost. I know this. If a website was actively recommending products that couldn't meet their advertised specifications, especially when the reviewer was more than capable of determining that, there would potentially be a a big problem for that poor reviewer and his LLC.

I honestly appreciate the push by you and @pma to include some testing for continuous power capability, but lets keep it sane. FTC is not going to go after reviewers for being limited in what they test and report. What other reviewers with testing are doing the 5 min 20-20k test?

 

[restorer-john]

I honestly appreciate the push by you and @pma to include some testing for continuous power capability, but lets keep it sane. FTC is not going to go after reviewers for being limited in what they test and report. What other reviewers with testing are doing the 5 min 20-20k test?

It's a power rating. Really simple stuff.

Is your light bulb actually 100W? Measure it.
Is your ceramic hotplate 1500W? Measure it.
Does your halogen bar heater actually pull 2kW? Measure it.
Does your amplifier deliver 100W continuous for 5 minutes into an 8R load? Measure it.

By not measuring to the requirements for advertising any amplifier over 2W (yes 2W), who is doing the disservice here?

 

[SIY]

FTC is not going to go after reviewers...

...period.

I think the regulation is worthless and have no intention of testing to it. The sweeps, stepped tests, and spectral analysis that I run will cause badly specified amps to fail without the need for the wildly inappropriate tests devised by some GS-12s and attorneys who can't hack the private sector, who have never made a product in their lives, and haven't a clue about actual use cases.

I am not worried about the FTC coming down on me for this.

 

[pjug]

It's a power rating. Really simple stuff.

Is your light bulb actually 100W? Measure it.
Is your ceramic hotplate 1500W? Measure it.
Does your halogen bar heater actually pull 2kW? Measure it.
Does your amplifier deliver 100W continuous for 5 minutes into an 8R load? Measure it.

Maybe but I don't even understand how the 5 min 20-20KKhz test is meant to be performed. If you can describe the procedure I would like to know what it is. Being sincere.

 

[Astoneroad]

I am not worried about the FTC coming down on me for this.

It's the DOJ that all should worry about.

 

[Deleted member 58670]

It would be very funny indeed of other things - like stove tops or heaters - were specified like audio amps. "Sure - it's 2 kilowatts!!!" (for 20 milliseconds)

 

[SIY]

It's the DOJ that all should worry about.

I'm sure there's a DoJ attorney who's thinking, "There's a guy in rural New York who writes for an audio magazine and is not following the FTC procedure. Lock him up!"

 

[pjug]

I'm sure there's a DoJ attorney who's thinking, "There's a guy in rural New York who writes for an audio magazine and is not following the FTC procedure. Lock him up!"

Just keep political commentary out of your reviews and you should be able to stay out of jail.

 

[Astoneroad]

I'm sure there's a DoJ attorney who's thinking, "There's a guy in rural New York who writes for an audio magazine and is not following the FTC procedure. Lock him up!"

If said rural NY'er has the wrong sign in his yard or a pro choice bumper sticker on a mini van... sadly it's closer to a coin toss proposition, imho.

EDIT: If said professor's university has a long proud history of rebellion and radicalism... the odds may change... Alfred U.

 

[JSmith]

stove tops or heaters

Those devices need to be continuous though for extended periods... audio amps not so much in practice. A bit "apples and oranges" really?


JSmith

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Who’s suggesting that reviewers are at risk of being reported? That’s outside the scope. Compliance with the FTC amplifier rule is the responsibility of manufacturers and advertisers, not independent reviewers.

 

[Astoneroad]

Just keep political commentary out of your reviews and you should be able to stay out of jail.

... like any talk of woke stress tests on amps?

 

[JustJones]

Dude, his excuse is he doesn't sell or advertise in the US

P282 Stereo Power Amplifier​

P282-1
USD $1,216.47

 

[restorer-john]

A watt is a watt is a watt.

I say, all amplifiers, henceforth, shall be specified in horsepower. At least they have some staying power and don't drop dead at the first step.

All this BS started appearing as stimuli signals reduced from continuous, to fewer and fewer cycles. The crazy "current" numbers for Class Ds (and plenty of conventional amps) are for single cycles into virtual short circuits (<0.1R).

 

[restorer-john]

P282 Stereo Power Amplifier​

P282-1
USD $1,216.47

A currency converter on his website is not "advertising". Come on.

Does he take out full page ads in the US?
Does he advertise in Stereophile?
Does he have some billboards on a random highway somewhere in the US?

I doubt it. I don't care either, but he's most likely being smart enough not to get himself raked over the proverbial coals for exaggerated specifications.

 

[SIY]

If said rural NY'er has the wrong sign in his yard or a pro choice bumper sticker on a mini van... sadly it's closer to a coin toss proposition, imho.

I have neither signs nor stickers (nor a minivan). Nor am I wearing a tinfoil hat. All I have is a well-equipped test lab with a variety of loads and environmental test chambers. And I will use them as I see fit and logical without worry about the Feds descending on me.

 

[JustJones]

A currency converter on his website is not "advertising". Come on.

Does he take out full page ads in the US?
Does he advertise in Stereophile?
Does he have some billboards on a random highway somewhere in the US?

I doubt it. I don't care either, but he's most likely being smart enough not to get himself raked over the proverbial coals for exaggerated specifications.

That isn't what you said.

Dude, his excuse is he doesn't sell or advertise in the US

He does sell in the US just like Fosi. They don't advertise in any audio magazines or take out billboards.

 

[SIY]

Those devices need to be continuous though for extended periods... audio amps not so much in practice. A bit "apples and oranges" really?


JSmith

Inapt analogies are inapt analogies.