Playing Apple Music HiRes

[pepie34]

Apple Music is a great and affordable ressource of musics in HiRes (24bit >48kz) but how well can we go HiRes from the player to the speaker ?

Airplay​

Examples:

• Apple airplay on player device + Airplay renderer (such as Moodeaudio) + DAC
• Apple TV + AV Amplifier

Pros​

• Can be controlled remotely from any apple device

Cons​

• Limited to 48kHz/24bits PCM

macOS device + DAC​

Pros​

• Can be controlled remotely from any apple device with remote app
• Compatible to DAC at least up to 192kHz/24bits PCM

Cons​

• Monopolised an expensive hardware (at least a mac mini) near the HiFi system
• Limited to a sample rate fixed once in the macOS audio configuration, i.e. can not change dynamically the audio resolution, not bit perfect

iOS device + DAC​

Pros​

• Rather cheap hardware near the HiFi system (a second hand iPhone is enough)
• Changes dynamically the audio resolution (bit perfect)
• Compatible to DAC at least up to 192kHz/24bits PCM

Cons​

• Can not be controlled remotely from an other iOs/macOS device: you need to stand up from your chair to change tracks

And you ?​

On my side, I'm using the later configuration but still mad and not being able to do remote control.
Simple remote control such as track backward and forward is doable using accessibility tools from an other iDevice or Siri but that is a pain in the neck for browsing tracks.

 

[IAtaman]

Cons​

• Limited to 48kHz/24bits PCM

Why you would ever need or want anything higher than 48Khz 24bit for music consumption?

 

[Zek]

Apple Music

Skip Apple Music, there are other audio players that allow playback of hi-res files natively (such as Audirvana, JRiver, Colibri, Pine Player, etc.).

 

[hearone]

I agree. Apple Music works already for my CarPlay. It seems to have more tracks than Qobus and cheaper. It has a tracks library similar to Tidal and you don't have wonder if that HFI FLAC is really lossless or just the container for the first unfold of a MQA non-bit perfect file being sent to you.

But as one quickly noticed, it is a PIA to get HiRes beyond just 24/48 on Apple.

My journey, I considered all the above. All the issues you noted. I thought had found the final solution- Evresolo streamers that claims to support Apple Music HiRes unto 24/19 as an app. Perfect. Also HiFi Rose streamers say they will support Apple Music HiRef but they never have delivered yet, AFIK.

How did the go with Eversolo Music HiRes. Frankly pretty rough for an $860 first gen device. To their credit, technically you can get it to work- sort of, but unstable, interface does not mach the other Eversolo's Tidal and Qobus. Poor app suppor with funky interface. Go look for yourself on their forums, but not much activity or interest, it seems. . Maybe in a year or so as it matures.

So, back to Airplay? Really?? While trying to test the Eversolo with Apple Music HiRes, I noticed it was really hard to find anything other than 24/48 or just Redbook 16/44.1 on any streaming music service. Just a guess, but probably 95% of music is still CD 16/44.1 I first thought it was a lot higher, but not today. Maybe it just is not s important as I initially thought.

I could use Airplay without problems on Eversolo and it seem to output 24/48. Good. Not super HiRes, but still lossless. But $860 to just Airplay or bit perfect stream Tidal/Qobus when the WiiM products do it also? And I really wanted a DAC more in the Eversolo Z8 class anyway. I bought the WiiM Pro for $150 to find out. Read the ASR review, its DAC sucks, but it a perfect bit streamer server. Airplay works fine on it. Also it has Chomecast that you can make work on IOS also. Works for me. No computer hangs off my system or trying to remote to it. Nor do I have to have a TV running to get Apple TV to work. I almost did not consider it just for the low price. How good it be any good. I am impressed and it looks like a Apple TV box.

But basically, until Apple opens up their API to other platform or supply some device better than the Apple TV 4K to get digital 24/28 audio to another device, I think it a reasonable trade-of for now, since the other options have trade-off amd/or cost also.

So my journey... Oh, the PRO streams Qobus and Tidal HiResvery well with their app- very stable. . Still TBD, but I probably just try to live with Apple Airplay unit something more supported is available for my Apple Music.


Best Wishes!

 

[pepie34]

I agree. Apple Music works already for my CarPlay. It seems to have more tracks than Qobus and cheaper. It has a tracks library similar to Tidal and you don't have wonder if that HFI FLAC is really lossless or just the container for the first unfold of a MQA non-bit perfect file being sent to you.

But as one quickly noticed, it is a PIA to get HiRes beyond just 24/48 on Apple.

My journey, I considered all the above. All the issues you noted. I thought had found the final solution- Evresolo streamers that claims to support Apple Music HiRes unto 24/19 as an app. Perfect. Also HiFi Rose streamers say they will support Apple Music HiRef but they never have delivered yet, AFIK.

How did the go with Eversolo Music HiRes. Frankly pretty rough for an $860 first gen device. To their credit, technically you can get it to work- sort of, but unstable, interface does not mach the other Eversolo's Tidal and Qobus. Poor app suppor with funky interface. Go look for yourself on their forums, but not much activity or interest, it seems. . Maybe in a year or so as it matures.

So, back to Airplay? Really?? While trying to test the Eversolo with Apple Music HiRes, I noticed it was really hard to find anything other than 24/48 or just Redbook 16/44.1 on any streaming music service. Just a guess, but probably 95% of music is still CD 16/44.1 I first thought it was a lot higher, but not today. Maybe it just is not s important as I initially thought.

I could use Airplay without problems on Eversolo and it seem to output 24/48. Good. Not super HiRes, but still lossless. But $860 to just Airplay or bit perfect stream Tidal/Qobus when the WiiM products do it also? And I really wanted a DAC more in the Eversolo Z8 class anyway. I bought the WiiM Pro for $150 to find out. Read the ASR review, its DAC sucks, but it a perfect bit streamer server. Airplay works fine on it. Also it has Chomecast that you can make work on IOS also. Works for me. No computer hangs off my system or trying to remote to it. Nor do I have to have a TV running to get Apple TV to work. I almost did not consider it just for the low price. How good it be any good. I am impressed and it looks like a Apple TV box.

But basically, until Apple opens up their API to other platform or supply some device better than the Apple TV 4K to get digital 24/28 audio to another device, I think it a reasonable trade-of for now, since the other options have trade-off amd/or cost also.

So my journey... Oh, the PRO streams Qobus and Tidal HiResvery well with their app- very stable. . Still TBD, but I probably just try to live with Apple Airplay unit something more supported is available for my Apple Music.


Best Wishes!

As stated in the main thread you can have 192/24 with a 150€ iPhone 8 and an external DAC or a optical bridge that works well but no remote.

 

[Zensō]

I could use Airplay without problems on Eversolo and it seem to output 24/48.

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding something, but isn’t Airplay 2 limited to 16/44.1?

 

[NoGoodPoints]

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding something, but isn’t Airplay 2 limited to 16/44.1?

I thought it was limited to 24/48 but you can stream natively at any rate beneath that with Airplay 2 vs Airplay 1 which would convert everything to 16/48.

 

[Zensō]

I thought it was limited to 24/48 but you can stream natively at any rate beneath that with Airplay 2 vs Airplay 1 which would convert everything to 16/48.

“As with AirPlay, AirPlay 2 supports lossless, 16-bit/44.1kHz CD-quality audio streams.”

What is AirPlay? Apple’s wireless streaming system explained

Apple AirPlay does far more than mirror your iPhone screen to your living room TV. Here’s everything you should know about Apple’s streaming tech.

www.digitaltrends.com

“iPhones and other Apple devices can only transmit lossless CD-quality audio, at 16-bit/44.1kHz, to an AirPlay-enabled speaker, leaving the technology incapable of supporting the higher-res streams now being offered by Apple Music and others.”

Apple AirPlay 2 supports 24-bit lossless audio, but you can’t use it

If AirPlay is limited to 16-bit CD-quality streams, how is the HomePod able to use AirPlay at a better-than-CD 24-bits?

www.digitaltrends.com

 

[pepie34]

To clarify things:

Apple Music can provide HiRes Audio data (files) up to 192/24.

Any iOS or macOS (but not Apple TV) device can play it at full HiRes: natively on some mac or through an external DAC connected by lightning (iPhone, old iPad) or USB (newer iPad, Mac).

As soon as you go through airplay (1 or 2) it is converted locally on the playing device to max 48/24[1] and then stream to the airplay renderer.

[1] I have not understand yet when it is 44.1 or 48 it does not seems to be link to the base sample freq. my guess is (take with caution): it is 48 only for 48 orig files otherwise it is 44.1 even for 192/96 files which are multiple of 48.

 

[Zensō]

As soon as you go through airplay (1 or 2) it is converted locally on the playing device to max 48/24[1] and then stream to the airplay renderer.

[1] I have not understand yet when it is 44.1 or 48 it does not seems to be link to the base sample freq. my guess is (take with caution): it is 48 only for 48 orig files otherwise it is 44.1 even for 192/96 files which are multiple of 48.

Can you provide a source link please? All of the authoritative sources I’ve seen say Airplay 1 and 2 are limited to 16/44.1. This has also been my experience checking with SoundSource and RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

 

[pepie34]

Why you would ever need or want anything higher than 48Khz 24bit for music consumption?

Please note also that airplay is streamed and that local play on iOS or macOS is better in term of jitter and bad wifi connection disconnection

 

[pepie34]

Can you provide a source link please? All of the authoritative sources I’ve seen say Airplay 1 and 2 are limited to 16/44.1. This has also been my experience checking with SoundSource and RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

May be I was wrong and it is not with lossless connection but with lossy AAC connection that you can achieve 48khz. That is why I struggle reproducing it.

At least Apple TV always output 48khz when rendering airplay though it may be 44.1 internally

 

[Ride154]

iOS device + DAC​

Cons​

• Can not be controlled remotely from an other iOs/macOS device: you need to stand up from your chair to change tracks

And you ?​

On my side, I'm using the later configuration but still mad and not being able to do remote control.
Simple remote control such as track backward and forward is doable using accessibility tools from an other iDevice or Siri but that is a pain in the neck for browsing tracks.

On my iPad I use a 15 euro Bluetooth ’camera’ remote to change tracks and rude volume controle.
You can’t change playlists but you can play/pause/next and previous.
With volume changes you only get 14/15 clicks ‘cause the iPad doesn’t have more steps when using the side button, but works ok for a phonecall in between.
I have a D10 laying around and will be using that to see what hi-res is about, so higher than 24/48.
When Apple Music went ‘lossless’ I did notice an improvement in my car audio with dsp, so now I’m curious if bigger is really better

 

[palm]

I was going to suggest using a BT keyboard but the camera remote idea is nice.
Personally I use a 12" MacBook and keep the 48KHz setting, but I can’t hear much above 16KHz.
For those bothered by this I think it’s not a big deal to adjust the settings and listen an album as a whole, but I think there are scripts changing this on the fly by watching log messages.

edit : here is such a tool (didn’t try) https://github.com/vincentneo/LosslessSwitcher

 

[jjk1]

Yeah it’s 2023 and apple still makes it difficult to get CD resolution from any device you happen to want to point it at even though their underlying tech is as good as anyone’s and being able to support it.
The closest I can get to full CD Apple Music in 2 streams or in my case 2 locations is to use an old ATV with hdmi+ optical.
that gives me 24bit volume control on 2 digital outlets at the same time with airplay 1. Something you can’t do with airplay 2 which is the heart of the entire problem with Apple Music. -send hdmi audio through the TV to a Wiim DAC to get PQE on a CD quality stream, and out the optical to a headlamp DAC that can route back to my speaker amp on a full bandwidth pass through, or out the WiiM back to the headlamp if I want EQ.
i have quit using apple music on iOS a few time because it just makes me mad, but I really like the the damn user experience too much to give it up.
truth is 256k acc is transparent so…. ‍ - it’s a first world problem
They could also include preouts or digital outputs on their fancy speakers but they won’t ever do that.

 

[Spyerx]

what I've settled on:
Mac mini on main system, connected to a Benchmark DAC3. I control the mini with Apple Remote, screen sharing, or connected TV. I use lossless switcher and it matches the dac rates to the music stream or local files.

I do same for office system:
Old Mac mini (they are cheap) connected to a Topping E50. I control the mini with Apple Remote, screen sharing, or connected TV. I use lossless switcher and it matches the dac rates to the music stream or local files.

This works quite well, I can play local files (about 2600 local lossless files from my cd collection) or stream. I mostly high resolution stream.

I decided to not use airplay unless I'm streaming whole house audio via my Sonos systems.

Since I'm so deep in Apple ecosystem it doesn't make sense for me to try a stand alone streamer with a display, and use a different service that will natively stream high resolution. That is the big disadvantage to Apple Music is you have to use their hardware to get high resolution. But then again, a headless M2 Mac mini is less $ that many streamers, about $500.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

Yesterday I played tried some audio testing from Apple Music in my laptop. Songs had “Apple lossless” logo, I assume the reproduction was 24bit/96khz or 24bits/192khz.

1: USB connection to MiniDSP flex should keep lossless quality as is.
2: Airplay 2 to Bluesound Node and optical cable to MiniDSP. Airplay 2 to Airplay 2 device reproduction loses some quality (16bit/44.1khz or worst).

Apple Music has the chance to stream through Airplay and reproduce music on the laptop same time.

MiniDSP has the chance to instantly switch between USB and SPDIF by pressing one button.

Maybe I have an untrained ear, but I was unable to hear almost any diffence between Airplay and USB connection. There are differences between both connections, and USB will be more stable and more accurate to the song, but I don’t define those differences as critical. Before testing I was afraid of Airplay loses. Now I will play wired/wireless connections indistinctly.

 

[Tre2023]

I use a Mac mini M1 for most Apple Music playback. The latest macOS update unlocked HDMI connection from only 24/48 output. Lossless 16/44.1 up to Hi-Res Lossless 24/192 are now available for output over HDMI from Apple Music. I also use LosslessSwitcher. Everything over Airplay 2 is locked at 16/44.1.

 

[Rottmannash]

Skip Apple Music, there are other audio players that allow playback of hi-res files natively (such as Audirvana, JRiver, Colibri, Pine Player, etc.).

Unfortunately Audirvana won't pass Apple Music-found out the hard way. so anyone w/o a Mac or iPhone or Apple TV is out of luck. I'm thinking of switching to Apple Music from Qobuz but can't figure out a way to pass it untouched to my dongle in the cars.

 

[Spyerx]

I use a Mac mini M1 for most Apple Music playback. The latest macOS update unlocked HDMI connection from only 24/48 output. Lossless 16/44.1 up to Hi-Res Lossless 24/192 are now available for output over HDMI from Apple Music. I also use LosslessSwitcher. Everything over Airplay 2 is locked at 16/44.1.

Interesting. I'll have to give that a look later. (the HDMI change)