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PlayClassics TRT v2.0 master file giveaway for ASR members

Sal1950

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#81
Anyway, It might be a good idea for me to develop a test tone that you could use to calibrate your system (should you want to) That way you would be sure that the volume you are listening to corresponds to the real volume of the performance.
That would be great. As I discussed with Ray, I have no idea what a live in-room piano sounds like or where to set my volume to get a realistic level if I should so chose. Since as I understand it you keep things calibrated for all your sessions, all a listener would have to do is make that SPL measurement once, note the level of his control, and be able to return to it a any time. It would be a nice little addition to your path, Truthful Recording and Playback calibrated? ;)
 
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#82
That would be great. As I discussed with Ray, I have no idea what a live in-room piano sounds like or where to set my volume to get a realistic level if I should so chose. Since as I understand it you keep things calibrated for all your sessions, all a listener would have to do is make that SPL measurement once, note the level of his control, and be able to return to it a any time. It would be a nice little addition to your path, Truthful Recording and Playback calibrated? ;)
Yes! that is exactly it :)

I will not be able to do this right away, but I will do it as soon as I can. I will share it when I have it ready...
 
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#83
That would be great. What would be fantastic :), would be some kind of frequency response of the recording room. With those two we can come much closer to the live recording.
Hi Amir,

We are already doing that. (that is what I was referring to on post #52)

Basically this is what we did:

We worked the acoustics of our hall until we got an "almost flat frequency response" from the sound sources on the stage to the place where the mics are located. (That would be the work we did to get "A", "B" and "C" as close as possible.)

Then we developed a specific calibration that turns that "almost flat frequency response" into a "completely flat frequency response".

The complete system (the physical setup + the calibration v2.0) has a flat frequency response.

So the perfect playback calibration for these recordings would be to play them on a system with a flat frequency response. :)
 

Sal1950

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#84
Yes! that is exactly it :)

I will not be able to do this right away, but I will do it as soon as I can. I will share it when I have it ready...
If it wouldn't be revealing any secrets, what is the approximate distance from the performers to the mic?
Sorry if you posted that already, I didn't find it.
 
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#85
If it wouldn't be revealing any secrets, what is the approximate distance from the performers to the mic?
Sorry if you posted that already, I didn't find it.
No secret :)

Here are the distances from the mics to the
- Piano: 11'6"
- Flamenco guitar: 9'3"
- Kick drum on drums recording: 8'10"
 

Sal1950

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#86
No secret :)

Here are the distances from the mics to the
- Piano: 11'6"
- Flamenco guitar: 9'3"
- Kick drum on drums recording: 8'10"
Thank you sir, inquiring minds just have to know. :rolleyes:
 
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#87
Here is how we are doing so far:

We have given out 17 albums. 9 for Albeniz Iberia, 6 for Cabrera plays Debussy, 1 for Chopin Polish Songs and 1 for Songs of Paolo Tosti.

In addition to the Gift Codes we have also received some donations; I want to tell you I am really grateful for that too.

Please feel free to post your impressions. Should you have any questions about the recordings, the web page, ...anything, please do ask, I will be happy to answer all your questions.
 

RayDunzl

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#88
Regarding volume calibration.

We don't have a calibration tone from the studio...

And I don't have a piano...

So...

I stood between my speakers (10 feet) and gave my best impressionistic rendition of a howling male operatic tenor, and got 98.7dB peak at the couch.

Oh sole mio! Figaro, Figaro!

You may laugh now.

However, I think it justifies my earlier volume selection which someone thought was a bit loud.

Hmm... I may need to work on my projection a bit.

What was the distance to the vocalists in the studio?
 
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RayDunzl

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#89
Waveform envelope for Claire de Lune:

upload_2016-9-2_17-3-3.png


In decibels:

upload_2016-9-2_17-6-3.png
 

fas42

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#90
Took me awhile to give a response about Mario's downloads here, sorry about that! Listened to all, just on the speakers of the laptop in fairly optimised state, and was very happy with all of them. As Ray commented about the flamenco, the style of music making for this lot was somewhat unusual to me, this was the hardest to "tune into".

I don't have complaints about the rock sample at all - in fact, this is a good piece for checking system competence; when the laptop was in standard shape the lead guitar distortion was "clogging" the sound, I had to switch on all the little tweaks to get the sound quality to a level where the imaging was fully in order. When done, there was excellent balance between the drums, lead and bass; the distorted guitar moved back to the far space it actually occupied, and if anything the drums and cymbals were dominating the sound picture - there is no change in the sense of the drums, or bass when the lead guitar switches off the distortion, which is how it should be. Ray said "truthful" about the recording, and I agree ...

Overall, a very nice sense of space in all the recordings, thanks for the opportunity to listen, Mario!
 
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#91
I don't have complaints about the rock sample at all - in fact, this is a good piece for checking system competence; when the laptop was in standard shape the lead guitar distortion was "clogging" the sound, I had to switch on all the little tweaks to get the sound quality to a level where the imaging was fully in order. When done, there was excellent balance between the drums, lead and bass; the distorted guitar moved back to the far space it actually occupied, and if anything the drums and cymbals were dominating the sound picture - there is no change in the sense of the drums, or bass when the lead guitar switches off the distortion, which is how it should be. Ray said "truthful" about the recording, and I agree ...

Overall, a very nice sense of space in all the recordings, thanks for the opportunity to listen, Mario!

Hi fas42,

Thanks for your feedback :)

Here is something that I think is very interesting about what you just said:

You used the rock recording to "tune" your system. All those "little tweaks" you turned on got the rock sample to sound right. Here is the interesting thing; those same tweaks should work just the same on all our other recordings too (the flamenco, the piano, the singers and the drum solo).

Commercial recordings do not work that way. Each commercial recording has a unique recording chain signature of its own. So whatever works for one recording does not necessarily work for the other. If you wanted to optimize you playback for them you would have to tweak each one of them separately. But you would not have any inter-recording reference to hold on to

The recording chain signature on all our recordings is a constant. That is what I mean when I say:

All our recordings are made exactly the same way. The hall, the recording gear and the calibration are the same.
If you are familiar enough with one of the instruments on any of these recordings you can go ahead and use that recording to tune your systems playback. If you get it to sound right, then you can be sure that whatever you did works just the same on the rest of our recordings.
 

fas42

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#93
You used the rock recording to "tune" your system. All those "little tweaks" you turned on got the rock sample to sound right. Here is the interesting thing; those same tweaks should work just the same on all our other recordings too (the flamenco, the piano, the singers and the drum solo).
Agree 100%
Commercial recordings do not work that way. Each commercial recording has a unique recording chain signature of its own. So whatever works for one recording does not necessarily work for the other. If you wanted to optimize you playback for them you would have to tweak each one of them separately. But you would not have any inter-recording reference to hold on to

If you are familiar enough with one of the instruments on any of these recordings you can go ahead and use that recording to tune your systems playback. If you get it to sound right, then you can be sure that whatever you did works just the same on the rest of our recordings.
But here I don't agree. I simply applied all the adjustments to the playback that I had worked out some time ago gave me optimum sound in general for the laptop - and it delivered, yet again. High quality, direct recordings like yours will benefit when the sound is highly complex, as in the guitar distortion mixing with drums and bass, with natural echo - but even the roughest pop recordings, etc, will also sound better. The highest clarity in the playback gives the most satisfying sound in all situations, I've found.

Straight, natural recordings like yours have a certain sound, as do, yes, the most twisted commercial recordings - personally, I can live with them all; but, there will be a large percentage of people who will strongly prefer a very natural sound, so here your recordings should find plenty of enthusiastic consumers :) !
 
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#94
That is good news,

if your adjustments are working for most recordings my guess is you have manage to bring your playback system very close to delivering a flat frequency response.

I know our recordings are supposed to work best when played back that way and, on average, all other commercial recordings should have been mastered using flat systems too so that is the best way to ensure you are listening to what the producers intended.

So you are getting the best results out of both worlds :)
 
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#95
I finally have the SPL file. Sorry it took so long.

You can use this SPL file to calibrate the volume of your system to the volume of the actual performance.

The file is a 40 second stereo pink noise at -20dB. You can download it on any of our regular formats (Master, DVD, CD, MP3)

While playing this file, adjust the volume of your system until your SPL meter reads 75dB at your listening point.

All our recordings (except for the drums and rock) are recorded with the same level, so once you calibrate you playback system you will be hearing all the recordings at real live level.

The drums and rock are 24dB louder than this. If you wanted to get real live levels of the drums and rock you would have to turn the volume up by 24dB. But I would not recommend trying to achieve that volume on your systems for the safety of your speakers.

Here are the links to the files:

TRTv2.0.master_SPL75dB
TRTv2.0.dvd_SPL75dB
TRTv2.0.cd_SPL75dB
TRTv2.0.mp3_SPL75dB

Have fun :)
 
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RayDunzl

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#96
The file is a 40 second stereo pink noise at -20dB.
I downloaded the CD version.

It shows this spectrum:

upload_2016-9-12_17-54-55.png


Whereas a pink noise track generated in Audacity looks like this:

upload_2016-9-12_17-51-20.png


How was your pink signal recorded, out of curiosity?

Both look about the same on an in-room RTA though, without getting out the microscope.


While playing this file, adjust the volume of your system until your SPL meter reads 75dB at your listening point.
Did that. It varies a little.

upload_2016-9-12_19-5-36.png


Played Iberia #3. Got a peak of 95.8dBZ here.

The drums and rock are 24dB louder than this. If you wanted to get real live levels of the drums and rock you would have to turn the volume up by 24dB. But I would not recommend trying to achieve that volume on your systems for the safety of your speakers.
Well, I did. briefly.

116.9 peak dBZ in the first few seconds of Drums #3, which may not have been the loudest part.

It did sound like someone had smuggled a drum kit in here. I've pounded the speakers with drums before, uncalibrated, so, had to see... No damages noted. It did light up the amplifiers.

Back to prior calibration, 93.0 was seen in the first few seconds - so, I suppose I got the +24dB about right (as did you). 98.4dBZ peak later, with full playback. That would indicate 122.4 dBZ peaks (98.4 + 24) if I dared play the whole track loudly...

Tosti #6 yielded 93.6dBZ.

I may have been listening to your tracks just a little bit louder before, with the guessing of levels with my own "calibration" based simply upon "match level on CD to level in room" as a personal calibration to check in-room sound versus accuracy to the recordings.

Thank you for the calibration.

Here is a sketch of the drums recording:
As I mentioned before, some of the drums had a muffled sound (to me). If the drawing is accurate you are recording from behind the drummer. Isn't he blocking some of the sound? Why wouldn't you record from the front of the kit, where the audience is normally located? (I know, it was an experiment)
 
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fas42

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#97
I was motivated to have another listen to those drums - that "muffled" quality that Ray mentions to me sounds more like the natural sound of the kit; with drums, it's all about the transients of the hit from the stick, at least for me - and this has been captured well, to me; the "tightness" of the skin on the drum comes across nicely. Perhaps commercial recordings often "enhance" the sound of the drum, give the instrument echo to shine out more?

I can't see speakers being damaged by enthusiastic volumes - I have done this myriad times, hammering even cheap and mediocre drivers very hard, so they deliver tremendous transient "pop". They've all survived, in fact they typically sound much better for it, the suspensions are nicely exercised and stabilised by the energetic excursions.

As a footnote, one of my tweaks for the rock recording was to convert to WAV, and then make sure the resultant file was not file system compressed, fully defragmented. Media Monkey (MM) gave non-optimal results direct from FLAC, and it was easy to see why: CPU usage by the program was significant while playing the FLAC. For WAV, the CPU usage for MM sits at 0% for the full duration of the track playback - things like this can make all the difference ...
 

Sal1950

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#98
I finally have the SPL file. Sorry it took so long.

You can use this SPL file to calibrate the volume of your system to the volume of the actual performance.

The file is a 40 second stereo pink noise at -20dB. You can download it on any of our regular formats (Master, DVD, CD, MP3)

While playing this file, adjust the volume of your system until your SPL meter reads 75dB at your listening point.

All our recordings (except for the drums and rock) are recorded with the same level, so once you calibrate you playback system you will be hearing all the recordings at real live level.

The drums and rock are 24dB louder than this. If you wanted to get real live levels of the drums and rock you would have to turn the volume up by 24dB. But I would not recommend trying to achieve that volume on your systems for the safety of your speakers.

Here are the links to the files:

SPLfileMaster
SPLfileDVD
SPLfileCD
SPLfileMP3

Have fun :)
Interesting and very educational, Thank You Mario.
In room levels are very much lower than I would have guessed.
Setting by ear I would have had them playing much louder.
I still owe you a review, I'll get that up soon.
 
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#99
How was your pink signal recorded, out of curiosity?
The pink noise was generated with the ProTools software. That is the one I used to measure the SPL, ...so I guess we are ok as long as we all use the same one :)

As I mentioned before, some of the drums had a muffled sound (to me). If the drawing is accurate you are recording from behind the drummer. Isn't he blocking some of the sound? Why wouldn't you record from the front of the kit, where the audience is normally located? (I know, it was an experiment)
Yes, we did record it from behind.

The drummer suggested we placed the drums this way so that he could hear the cymbals and drums placed relative to his playing position during playback.

I cannot be sure, but I do not think that would be the reason for that "muffled sound" you are hearing.

Drums are never recorded this way. Normally you would place different mics on different pieces. That way you would have to ability of eq each piece separately to bring out specific aspect of the sound and hide others. We are not taking away or adding anything, so I think it might have more to do with the fact that you are hearing the "raw" sound of the drums.

BTW the make of the drums is Gretsch and the model is Renown '57.
 

RayDunzl

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Listening to the drums again, it is the kick drum that irritates me.

Maybe related to the tuning/setup of that drum.

Being a bit ignorant about that I watched a video...

My present opinion is it may be tuned a bit high or the resonance control is killing the bottom, and its sound isn't sufficiently distinct from the the low tom.

Nice looking kit... Gretsch Renown '57



On the other hand, maybe it's just me, or something about my playback.

Anyway, your recordings are very good, as are the performers on the albums.
 
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