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Pioneer VSX-LX505 (with Dirac) Unboxing and Overview

Flak

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@Flak Dirac Virtuso sounds great, too bad that the press release had no information for us peeps with more traditional speaker setups.
Yes, but I expect that we'll announce the new Dirac Live feature this month...
 
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greenpsycho

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Yes, 3 actually. Though, I will note that if you have the slots filled, and then do the "quick calibrate" thru the phone app, it seems to save that calibration to all 3 slots. So, I would backup the calibrations before doing that.
 

Sammy135

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I have a question about dirac with this pioneer 505.

As far as I know, pioneer crossover is for every speaker, not individual.

So that has me concerned that discrepancy between having fronts crossover at 80 vs. Having the rear surrounds for example at 150 hz.

Heres the video, specifically 9:34 in the video.


I watched a tutorial on onkyo rz50 dirac, and in that video, it put the crossover at 80 for LCR and heights at 120 for his room.

So, if i get the pioneer 505, how does that equivalent screen look like on the pioneer. Because i dont think pioneer has THX and i dont think itll let dirac assign every speaker differently.

So im asking to the owners of the pioneer 505, how does dirac assign crossovers, and is it a big deal that the pioneer is missing thx and the different crossovers?
 
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greenpsycho

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I'm not sure what you mean by "missing thx"?

But yes, it would appear the similar screen, as noted previously, only has 1 crossover setting. Which COULD be assigned to all speakers. However.... I really don't know. The dirac "curtains" appear differently for my center and LR (30hz on LR and 80hz on center). Also, there is the "large" and "small" setting on the speakers, which does....something. So does the crossover setting just apply to the speakers that are "small" ie 80hz crossover for those and my "large" speakers get full frequency? how does dirac interplay with this? I'm not really sure anyone knows and I don't really know how I would go about testing it.
 

Sammy135

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I'm not sure what you mean by "missing thx"?

But yes, it would appear the similar screen, as noted previously, only has 1 crossover setting. Which COULD be assigned to all speakers. However.... I really don't know. The dirac "curtains" appear differently for my center and LR (30hz on LR and 80hz on center). Also, there is the "large" and "small" setting on the speakers, which does....something. So does the crossover setting just apply to the speakers that are "small" ie 80hz crossover for those and my "large" speakers get full frequency? how does dirac interplay with this? I'm not really sure anyone knows and I don't really know how I would go about testing it.
What i meant by THX, is in the video, it recommended 80 and in brackets (THX) also the advertising for both, it shows the rz50 for thx certification.

I assume thx just means it can crossover at 80 and cause no distortion to obtain that certification.

What do you mean by dirac curtains offer 30 for LR and 80 for center. By the word curtain, do you mean thats what dirac recommends after running it?

I mean if thats the case, i can kinda understand if you have some beastmode towers for L and R. Makes sense center is 80, woofer on centers is usually weak compared to a tower.

So this is what i was asking, if dirac recommends a different value, can it even do that if pioneer doesnt support that feature. This is contradicting to how dirac was implemented in the onyko vs. Pioneer.
 
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greenpsycho

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I think we're right at the outskirts of my understanding here, but from what I know, the 80hz crossover is the THX standard recommended. If you xover at 75hz is your system automatically not "thx certified"? No. I mean, even if you xover at 80hz, are you fully THX certified? No, its really just a marketing label

As for the curtains, this is what dirac and its users call the lower and upper boundaries for the room correction. In this example below, the vertical yellow/tan bars. From what I understand, dirac won't adjust outside of the curtains. Here is also a good explanation from emotiva regarding the dirac curtains:
emo dirac curtains

The curtains control the frequency range over which Dirac will try to correct the response of a certain channel.
The response "outside the curtains" will be left as it was (the Dirac filter will be flat there), and the target curve inside the curtains will be adjusted.
(The frequency response cannot jump suddenly; the target curve will be gradually bent on the ends so it can join up with the uncorrected portions without any kinks or jumps.)
By default, Dirac will position the curtains at the points that it thinks are the response limits of the speaker.

However, other than that, Dirac treats each channel as "full range" for purposes of correcting it.
Then, when you apply the crossover LATER, the crossover will "use" as much of the corrected/full frequency range as it asks for.
Even if you're going to put a crossover at 80 Hz, so you're not going to be sending anything to that channel below 80 Hz (nominally), there's no particular reason NOT to let Dirac correct that channel down to 40 Hz.
(This is both because crossovers are NOT perfectly sharp, and because it really doesn't hurt anything to correct portions of the spectrum you won't be using anyway.
It also lets you change the crossover settings after you run Dirac, and try different settings, or even large vs small, without having to re-run Dirac.)

The only reason to specifically adjust the curtains is that you specifically DON'T want Dirac to adjust certain frequency ranges.
For example, if your speakers sound really just perfect with voice and upper frequencies, but the bass is bad, you might set the top curtain down to 250 Hz.
This would allow Dirac to adjust the bass, but specifically prevent it from adjusting anything above 250 Hz (because you think that's just perfect the way it is).

Or, maybe, if your surrounds had really bad tweeters, and, when Dirac tried to make them flat by boosting the treble, it just made them sound worse.
In that case, you might set the top curtain down to 12 kHz for those channels (in effect telling Dirac "forget everything above 12 kHz - you can't fix it - so don't try").

fronts-png.2753912



The point I was previously trying to make is that I'm not sure how the xovers work and how they interact with the dirac settings and the small/large speaker settings. Annnndddd.....I'm not sure we should care (especially at this price point). This is a low/mid tier AVR with dirac (whose main purpose is supposed to be "set it and forget it"). If you want a more powerful/customizable unit, sure. But honestly I think your getting lost in the weeds here and focusing on something that probably won't matter much in your setup.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you need your heights rolled off sooner cause they get too boomy, first, they have their own internal frequency range which is probably fine. Second, if you still think they are too boomy in the lower end, then dial that down in dirac a few db for that range. easy peasy.
 

dlaloum

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On the Integra/Onkyo models with THX certification, there is THX Loudness Plus available - which can be applied to any audio stream that you can apply THX to.

The models that do not get THX, get a "Night Listening" mode - which probably achieves a similar result
 

dlaloum

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tjcinnamon

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Is this article a hint to the new feature(s)?

I do think it will be that. I have no idea how that will tie into AVR’s or what AVRs will be included. It looks like it corrects to approx 1000Hz

Exciting times givin that I have 11 channels and I’m looking to add wides.
 

dlaloum

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I do think it will be that. I have no idea how that will tie into AVR’s or what AVRs will be included. It looks like it corrects to approx 1000Hz

Exciting times givin that I have 11 channels and I’m looking to add wides.
Having decent full range speakers, which most of us do, and then combining it with this type of capability and a single Subwoofer, would / should be sufficient for most setups ...

It might remove the need for multiple subs?

Also what it might add with additional speakers (eg: wides) - is interesting too...
 

dshreter

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Having decent full range speakers, which most of us do, and then combining it with this type of capability and a single Subwoofer, would / should be sufficient for most setups ...

It might remove the need for multiple subs?

Also what it might add with additional speakers (eg: wides) - is interesting too...
Honestly if it works in stereo it’s still cool.
 

tjcinnamon

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Flak

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Since most Dirac Live activities for the CES 2022 have been cancelled, the announcement of the new Dirac Live feature is no longer time critical so we are working on a plan to announce the feature at another time/opportunity and it is unknown when it will be.
However I feel I need to say more than that, so I'm "autoanswering" those very few questions where I can comment.

Is it somehow related to the Dirac's website document that I posted?
Yes, it is.

Is it different from Bass Control and Room Correction?
Yes, it's a different new feature that complements those.

Is it targeted to AVR/Processors?
Yes, it is

Will it be supported by existing units?
It can possibly be supported by existing units through a firmware update.
It is significantly heavier than DLBC though, so there's no guarantee.

Let me conclude by saying that it will take months as priorities have changed and we will see at least another announcement about a different subject before that.
Thanks a lot for your interest :)
Flavio
 

ppataki

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Since most Dirac Live activities for the CES 2022 have been cancelled, the announcement of the new Dirac Live feature is no longer time critical so we are working on a plan to announce the feature at another time/opportunity and it is unknown when it will be.
However I feel I need to say more than that, so I'm "autoanswering" those very few questions where I can comment.

Is it somehow related to the Dirac's website document that I posted?
Yes, it is.

Is it different from Bass Control and Room Correction?
Yes, it's a different new feature that complements those.

Is it targeted to AVR/Processors?
Yes, it is

Will it be supported by existing units?
It can possibly be supported by existing units through a firmware update.
It is significantly heavier than DLBC though, so there's no guarantee.

Let me conclude by saying that it will take months as priorities have changed and we will see at least another announcement about a different subject before that.
Thanks a lot for your interest :)
Flavio

Hi @Flak
Can you maybe also confirm if it will be available to the Windows/Mac Processor too? (I mean what is now officially called the Dirac Live® Room Correction Suite).
So in other words will people with the software only on Windows and Mac be able to benefit from the new feature or only those with an AVR hardware?
Thank you
 
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