Parts Express Orian Speaker Review

[kemmler3D]

I agree, my 100 litre horn system cost me peanuts but once you go normal the more competition the DIY solution has. And that probably answers my question, within a few years will probably find an affordable 3 way with a Coax and two 8 inch woofers that measures supremely well.

Yep, I would say speaker building is a lot like furniture building. You could actually argue it's a special case of furniture building.

Do you just want a normal table or chair? Unless you already have the wood and the tools you're going to come out break even at best doing DIY, minus weeks of your life.

Do you want a completely custom piece of furniture, or just something really big and unusual? DIY might get you there for 1/10 the cost.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Back to the topic....

James mentions that the lack of imaging is probably from the how the coax provides a waveguide to the tweeter and ruins its dispersion characteristics. or someting along these lines. Can't we confidently say that the problem is from the coax driver itself? Or how about I put the question this way, you mention that without raw driver measurements we can't know exactly what is wrong but is there any indication that the issue is coming from somehwere else other than the coax?

Seems likely and read that the Orian was an attempt to dump the coaxials as they were a failed design. The open back aspect is another question as they might possibly behave better in a sealed cabinet. Coaxials are definitely tricky to pull off well if you look at the current drivers from SB and Seas.

A few simple measures with the driver installed would have given a much more complete picture, but unfortunately that was not done. Have not done an open back midrange but seems prudent that you would want to spend time measuring and listening to the tuning alternatives. Cannot blame James much here as am sure he has plenty else to review. But as a DIY hobbyist, would be interesting to know if the design were more salvageable or not. The lack of typical design info or anyway to inexpensively evaluate the coaxial driver is unusual for PE. This only feeds into the speculation over the coaxial’s performance.

 

[Rick Sykora]

FWIW, I have a pair of Kali on my shortlist for getting rid of the cheesy Klipsh and Logitech 2.1 THX toys I've kept around for years (decade?).


For some, isn't it just because they are there and can be built?

Yes, if you are a DIY addict and have $600 to spare just to claim you built perhaps. As you might surmise, have a bit of that obsession!

But with the added effort to build and finish, I think DIY design calls for an even greater attention to how to produce an extra level of sound quality that transcends beyond what you can simply purchase. If the coaxial driver was great then the open back aspect really is not needed or, at the most, be left as a curious option.

I think this detail is why Linkwitz’s and some more recent DIY designs are compelling. Even if not as unique as an LX521 or LX mini, supplying more in-depth design info can reveal why it may be a worthy project. As I posted earlier, sometimes it may take some extra work to uncover the added benefit of a DIY effort. PE does that well with less expensive products like the C-Note or the BR-1. Given its higher cost, the Orian needs even greater support to leap the hurdle imo. Am not seeing that here and so, regardless of technical root cause (like a poor coaxial design) find it a less compelling offering.

p.s.

Agree on the Sica coax as @ctrl had floated it for Directiva. Unfortunately, price and availability here made me less willing to invest time on it.

 

[Trdat]

Seems likely and read that the Orian was an attempt to dump the coaxials as they were a failed design. The open back aspect is another question as they might possibly behave better in a sealed cabinet. Coaxials are definitely tricky to pull off well if you look at the current drivers from SB and Seas.

That was my thought, the coxial provides a waveguide to control dispersion for the tweeter and provide an inbetween for imaging and a large soundstage but opening the back to increase reflections kind of defeats the purpose. Either the goal for the kits is to target a particular market or the desginer has a trade off or better still a concept that isn't sufficiently placed with speaker design theory. The same designer created the C-note(I think) so I doubt that it is a schoolboy error. My bias is that I always close everything subs, midrange and the whole cabinet so very keen to know how the driver would work in a closed back.

A few simple measures with the driver installed would have given a much more complete picture, but unfortunately that was not done. Have not done an open back midrange but seems prudent that you would want to spend time measuring and listening to the tuning alternatives. Cannot blame James much here as am sure he has plenty else to review. But as a DIY hobbyist, would be interesting to know if the design were more salvageable or not. The lack of typical design info or anyway to inexpensively evaluate the coaxial driver is unusual for PE. This only feeds into the speculation over the coaxial’s performance.

Brilliantly put, I appreciate the response. Summarized my amatuer thoughts in a quantative manner.

To be honest, I am still baffled how in this day and age a company like Dayton that designs drivers for DIY do not provide polar plots. I mean, even speaker companies that do not provide spinorama is beyond me but at least drivers should have more data than just off axis measurements.

The polar plots not only will help us find a directivity match it will also help us understand the desicion making processes the desinger went through in cases like this.

 

[Trdat]

I think this is why Linkwitz’s and some more recent DIY designs are compelling. Even if not an unique as an LX521 or LX mini, supplying more in-depth design info can reveal why it may be a worthy project. As I posted earlier, sometimes it may take some extra work to uncover the added benefit of a DIY effort. PE does that well with less expensive products like the C-Note or the BR-1. Given its higher cost, the Orian needs even greater support to leap the hurdle imo. Am not seeing that here and so, regardless of technical root cause, find it a less compelling offering.

The funny thing is I was only reading for the first time James Larsons page on Audioholics and then this thread popped up, what a coincidence.

That's right, I got excited when I saw a coxial design and thought end game, integreate with 3 subs and you got a winner but it seems, like you said it needs so much more for us DIY geared enthusiasts to be sold on it. I would expect Parts Express to fil in these gaps.

 

[Colonel7]

Assuming the quality control is ok from the manufacturer

 

[JayGilb]

Definitely. But people come here all the time thinking that they'll toss something together and have SOTA for cheap.

I've built DIY speakers for over 2 decades and mostly struggled with crossover designs not being optimal and causing audible peaks and dips. My last two efforts have been
built using multi-channel amplification combined with DSP and that combination is a game changer.

 

[fpitas]

I've built DIY speakers for over 2 decades and mostly struggled with crossover designs not being optimal and causing audible peaks and dips. My last two efforts have been
built using multi-channel amplification combined with DSP and that combination is a game changer.

For mine, I just skipped the passive crossover part. I fool with coils and capacitors all day at work without needing more punishment.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Assuming the quality control is ok from the manufacturer
View attachment 341170

Assuming this is the Orian coaxial, does start to explain the some of the issue. Know the measurement conditions?

 

[Colonel7]

Assuming this is the Orian coaxial, does start to explain the some of the issue. Know the measurement conditions?

If it’s the same as the CX120 and usual Dayton/PE format it is 2.83v/1m with 1/24 smoothing and splicing at 450 hz. I have a number of the smaller CX120s and they are too compromised in a number of ways to call them good (freq. response and power handling the biggest)

 

[Rick Sykora]

If it’s the same as the CX120 and usual Dayton/PE format it is 2.83v/1m with 1/24 smoothing and splicing at 450 hz

The Orian uses a CX-150.

 

[Colonel7]

The Orian uses a CX-150.

Yes I know. Sorry wasn't clear. I meant if the testing conditions were the same for the CX150 as the CX120. The frequency response I posted was the CX150 that the Orian uses. Both the 150 and the 120 drivers have also had the complaints I mentioned plus inconsistency between units when trying to match them for building pairs

 

[Rick Sykora]

Did not initially notice how glowing the subjective comments in this review are. Surprised for a speaker that measured like this...

Pretty wonky midrange response and rolled off highs. Have not frequented Audioholics lately.

Do other AH speaker reviews with such poor measurements garner such high praise?

 

[Steve Dallas]

Yeh, but I think the idea that speakers these days are decent enough quality and DIY has no compelling reason revolves around standard bookshelfs. Correct me if I am wrong but what about putting a quality coax with two 8 inch woofers with software DSP(obviously if you know how to use it) it will be siginifcantly cheaper than its according couterpart or are you suggesting you can even get that type of speaker for such a price that DIY'ing is pointless?

A couple of thoughts from a former DIYer...

1. An affordable quality coax is difficult to find. Few companies do coax well (as this review demonstrates)
2. The cost of tools adds up quickly. At a minimum, you need a DATS system, measurement rig, miniDSP, several channels of amplification, etcetera
3. The cost of materials is often far higher than beginners imagine
4. The cost of a good finish is often far higher than beginners imagine

Also... Between KEF Q Series and ELAC Unifi and Unifi Reference Series, good sounding coax towers are widely available and often at deep discounts. What average DIYer could beat those designs for less money? I would say very few.

 

[hex168]

Yes, if you are a DIY addict and have $600 to spare just to claim you built perhaps. As you might surmise, have a bit of that obsession!

But with the added effort to build and finish, I think DIY design calls for an even greater attention to how to produce an extra level of sound quality that transcends beyond what you can simply purchase. If the coaxial driver was great then the open back aspect really is not needed or, at the most, be left as a curious option.

I think this detail is why Linkwitz’s and some more recent DIY designs are compelling. Even if not as unique as an LX521 or LX mini, supplying more in-depth design info can reveal why it may be a worthy project. As I posted earlier, sometimes it may take some extra work to uncover the added benefit of a DIY effort. PE does that well with less expensive products like the C-Note or the BR-1. Given its higher cost, the Orian needs even greater support to leap the hurdle imo. Am not seeing that here and so, regardless of technical root cause (like a poor coaxial design) find it a less compelling offering.

p.s.

Agree on the Sica coax as @ctrl had floated it for Directiva. Unfortunately, price and availability here made me less willing to invest time on it.

Darn. I would have built a Sica coax Directiva. Isn't there a dealer for SICA in Florida?

 

[Trdat]

Darn. I would have built a Sica coax Directiva. Isn't there a dealer for SICA in Florida?

My suggestion would be to take this a step further with the Sica coax with a number of woofers maybe two 8 inches that doesn't need to play low bass, essentially a tower speaker designed with the need of a subwoofer. This would bring down distortion, provide dynamics and punch and of course good directivity with the well designed coax. Maybe cardoid bass???

Rick, next DIY design???

 

[Trdat]

A couple of thoughts from a former DIYer...

1. An affordable quality coax is difficult to find. Few companies do coax well (as this review demonstrates)
2. The cost of tools adds up quickly. At a minimum, you need a DATS system, measurement rig, miniDSP, several channels of amplification, etcetera
3. The cost of materials is often far higher than beginners imagine
4. The cost of a good finish is often far higher than beginners imagine

Also... Between KEF Q Series and ELAC Unifi and Unifi Reference Series, good sounding coax towers are widely available and often at deep discounts. What average DIYer could beat those designs for less money? I would say very few.

It looks like my next speaker will be one of the KEF towers...

 

[Rick Sykora]

Darn. I would have built a Sica coax Directiva. Isn't there a dealer for SICA in Florida?

Yes and looks as they actually have drivers available now (last time they did not). Will investigate a bit more!

 

[Trdat]

Assuming the quality control is ok from the manufacturer
View attachment 341170

Well, I don't really know how to directivity match without a polar plot. I use the -6db point from the tweeters polar plot to match to the woofer beamwidth. Is there a way to do that with similar accuracy with the above off axis measurements?

 

[Rick Sykora]

My suggestion would be to take this a step further with the Sica coax with a number of woofers maybe two 8 inches that doesn't need to play low bass, essentially a tower speaker designed with the need of a subwoofer. This would bring down distortion, provide dynamics and punch and of course good directivity with the well designed coax. Maybe cardoid bass???

Rick, next DIY design???

None of the Sica distributors in the US are importing the desired driver. so not Directiva but could be a side project.