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Optimal Way of Adding DSP to Subs with no DSP

serkankster

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I am considering buying 2 Monolith subs over some other subs which have built in PEQ. I’m not clear what the ideal way of adding DSP would be. Currently my setup includes DAC and an integrated amp. I will need to buy a miniDSP and most probably a preamp as well. One possible way to do this would be having miniDSP between the preamp and the amp, and then connect the subs directly to the miniDSP. But then it sounds like i would be digitizing the signal after the preamp and this is probably not optimal in terms of the quality of the signal the amp receives. Curious if anyone has recommendations? I never had a preamp before, but do i need to find a preamp with all active outputs, and pass the signal to the subs through DSP while using a separate output for the main amp? Thanks in advance!
 
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serkankster

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Thanks! Yeah, switching to a AV Receiver would do it but I think I would like to keep having separates in my system.
 

abdo123

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I thought so too but it just became way too much clutter and not very well integrated with modern technologies for my need.

you can buy subs with DSP built-in, the lineup of SVS all has PEQ filters.
 

Ron Texas

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Use a MiniDSP instead of your DAC. There's no need for a preamp, especially with an integrated amp. The MiniDSP will give you DSP on both the subs and mains, provide a crossover and time delay the mains if necessary.
 

DVDdoug

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. But then it sounds like i would be digitizing the signal after the preamp and this is probably not optimal in terms of the quality of the signal the amp receives.
If it improves the sound it's more optimal!

The subs with built-in PEQ probably use analog EQ which isn't usually as "precise" but depending on the necessary EQ adjustments analog could be just as good. But with two completely different subs it's "apples to oranges".
 

Ron Texas

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If it improves the sound it's more optimal!

The subs with built-in PEQ probably use analog EQ which isn't usually as "precise" but depending on the necessary EQ adjustments analog could be just as good. But with two completely different subs it's "apples to oranges".
Subs come both with analog and digital PEQ. The Rythmik L12 has a single analog PEQ while SVS has IIRC 3 digital PEQ's. However, the Rythmik has only 3 ms of delay while SVS typically has 6 ms.
 
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serkankster

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Use a MiniDSP instead of your DAC. There's no need for a preamp, especially with an integrated amp. The MiniDSP will give you DSP on both the subs and mains, provide a crossover and time delay the mains if necessary.
This would require doing volume control in the DAC, right? Got it, that definitely sounds like a good option.

although I’m kinda attached to my RME DAC. The improvement i observed when I replaced my Schitt Modi DAC with RME was rather very large, and it makes me hesitant to change it. But i can always experiment with this setup and change it later if it doesn’t work out.
 
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MAB

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I am considering buying 2 Monolith subs over some other subs which have built in PEQ. I’m not clear what the ideal way of adding DSP would be. Currently my setup includes DAC and an integrated amp. I will need to buy a miniDSP and most probably a preamp as well. One possible way to do this would be having miniDSP between the preamp and the amp, and then connect the subs directly to the miniDSP. But then it sounds like i would be digitizing the signal after the preamp and this is probably not optimal in terms of the quality of the signal the amp receives. Curious if anyone has recommendations? I never had a preamp before, but do i need to find a preamp with all active outputs, and pass the signal to the subs through DSP while using a separate output for the main amp? Thanks in advance!
What are your sources?
A miniDSP Flex will allow you to switch between USB/TOSLINK/SPDIF/BT in and also analog (like a phono preamp, or tuner, etc.), plus volume control. So it is a fairly flexible preamp. It also sounds great. The miniDSP SHD has extra I/O channels, plus can be used as a network music player.
Both of these are really useful for integrating a sub, and with a microphone are as good as the best built-in PEQ.

I have two Flex and one SHD that I use in active bass-managed systems. I have an RME ADI-2 FS that I use for headphones along-side of a desktop miniDSP system. I know what you mean about the RME devices. And I am loving their new control application. But I would seriously consider the miniDSP for active speaker and subwoofer applications.
 
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serkankster

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What are your sources?
A miniDSP Flex will allow you to switch between USB/TOSLINK/SPDIF/BT in and also analog (like a phono preamp, or tuner, etc.), plus volume control. So it is a fairly flexible preamp. It also sounds great. The miniDSP SHD has extra I/O channels, plus can be used as a network music player.
Both of these are really useful for integrating a sub, and with a microphone are as good as the best built-in PEQ.

I have two Flex and one SHD that I use in active bass-managed systems. I have an RME ADI-2 FS that I use for headphones along-side of a desktop miniDSP system. I know what you mean about the RME devices. And I am loving their new control application. But I would seriously consider the miniDSP for active speaker and subwoofer applications.
Wow, the measurements of miniDSP flex look impressive! Thanks for the suggestion. And great to hear that you are in a position to compare it with RME ADI-2 DAC as well. It sounds like this is the way to go.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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Use a MiniDSP instead of your DAC. There's no need for a preamp, especially with an integrated amp. The MiniDSP will give you DSP on both the subs and mains, provide a crossover and time delay the mains if necessary.
The problem is when is not a integrated amp but a power-amp...
 
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serkankster

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The problem is when is not a integrated amp but a power-amp...
This shouldn’t be an issue with miniDSP flex which has volume control.

I guess one other option could be connecting my amp’s variable outs to the miniDSP, and connect miniDSP to the subs. I wonder if that would have any significant downsides?
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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This shouldn’t be an issue with miniDSP flex which has volume control.

I guess one other option could be connecting my amp’s variable outs to the miniDSP, and connect miniDSP to the subs. I wonder if that would have any significant downsides?
I know a guy with the topping d90, kef reference 3 and had this

image-3.jpg


There was a huge weird thing in the lower bass, a weird sound that was a completely deal breaker, we thinked the problems was the ports or something but when we disconnect this thing the problem went away, we were using this into the coax

He ended selling this thing and not going back to minidsp, i remember this has the akm chip
 
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MAB

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Wow, the measurements of miniDSP flex look impressive! Thanks for the suggestion. And great to hear that you are in a position to compare it with RME ADI-2 DAC as well. It sounds like this is the way to go.
I use a Flex Balanced as the preamp and the crossover/DSP for a pair of JBL M2 clones. JBL's entire DSP filter network; crossovers, 20 or so notch and shelf filters, delays, plus room EQ are all done in the MiniDSP.
I have Flex 8 driving my computer system, which are a pair of active 2-way plus subs.
I use the SHD to integrate subs with a pair of Genelec active monitors. It does not make 'weird sounds' as was alluded to above.
 

Sokel

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Did miniDSP fixed the low's issue yet?
I know it's long anticipated.
 

ZolaIII

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Optimal way of doing it if forming correct response and slope in digital domain per each sub (and speakers of course) with PEQ filters, leveling them to each others and time align them. There are many ways to fry a chicken and depending on your needs you chose the most appropriate one for your use case that won't be too much expensive. So you can use a PC with either a multichannel I/O interface if you want or need to go balanced and have a very good ADC, mic amp's and such or you can go with deacent internal multichannel sound card but in that case you will be limited to desktop PC and very little of those with good ADC. General advantages are software flexibility (decoders, encoders, plugins, players, DAW's, convolver engine's, infinite PEQ's... pretty much anything ever written) and generally ability to use up to date and most advanced implementations (64 bit FP processing) and disadvantage is obviously having to deal with PC (complexity, maintenance...) and how they mostly ain't that silent or completely silent. Or you can go with all in one ADC-DSP-DAC in which case you are obviously limited to inbuilt functionality, capability and filter quality. MiniDSP Flex isn't a bad choice in this category right now all do filter quality isn't stelar and convolver import isn't as easy as it could/should be and PEQ limit is ten per channel which should be enough combined in most cases. It's also centralised volume control (preamp), only thing really lacking is loudness control (which you probably have on your current RME). Main advantage is obviously self stand operation (once you complete the setup) and that is applies to all available/supported inputs.
Best regards and have a nice time.
 

Sokel

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What is this issue / long anticipated fix?
Have a look at the (digital in-out,analog is far worst of course) measurements and conversation here:


(there's couple of other subjects too in that thread,really interesting)
 
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