Not trying to be arrogant here, but who listens to this?

[ahofer]

Another thing that we are contending with is many formally educated composers’ desire not just to create a thing of beauty but to be one of the lasting greats in their field, which means having a recognizable, original, musical vocabulary that they themselves developed or changed from their predecessors. Sometimes the end in itself is to upend the rules. As long as that motivates composers, you will have music where the bits are put together in novel, somewhat systematized ways. With mixed results. But that’s the price we pay for innovation.

On a separate note, regarding the art discussion, I recall Joni Mitchell’s quip “Nobody ever said to Van Gogh ’paint A Starry Night again, man’.”

 

[Vacceo]

I think this is a perfect example of music that doesn't necessitate understanding.

Not a genre I normally spend time on, but I had a listen, and I like it. I enjoy the way it affects my emotions. Don't care about any message or intention it might have.

Reminds me of an Asger Jorn exhibition I once went to. The place was absolutely packed with pretentious old farts rambling on about how they "understood" this and that in the paintings. Constantly trying to "one up" each other. It made me so nauseous that I had to leave the place.

I listen to a lot of music that probably tries to convey some sort of statement through symbolism. But I couldn't care less. I just enjoy the sound.

Not saying that I don't enjoy finding profound subtext in a piece of music, but it definitely comes second to me.

That is pretty much what Philip Glass's Koyaanisqatsi. There is something addictive on the music with the demolition of Pruitt Igoe.

 

[Daverz]

...I just found The Firebird on YouTube and it's not actually that "weird" or dissonant or "unmusical" at all! Not what I remembered (mis-remembered)!!! Now it sounds it could be used as movie background music. And a little quick research tells me that it was from a ballet so that's sort-of like "movie music".

The big tune in the Finale never fails to lift my spirits.

 

[ahofer]

P. S. Kindly stop using "atonal" as a synonym for "music I dislike." The word has almost no worthy meaning; even Schönberg repudiated it as a term. "Post tonal" is far better, because the fact is, we live in a post-tonal musical world. Dissonance has been emancipated (jazz for one would be impossible without it), and the actual, real principles of common-practice tonality as any composer would have understood it before the 20th century (but after the early 17th century) are basically not substantively adhered to by anyone, not pop music song writers, not neo-tonal composers, not film composers, not anyone. Possibly music theory teachers but that's about it. Unless you're perfectly fine with a mushy definition to the word "tonal" that would actually apply to literally all music ever, if you just thought about it for half a second, or would just mean something as vapid as basically just "only the music I like": we can do better.

Granted, the casual listener’s idea of familiar harmony is well beyond tonal. While this is a fair cop, and I don’t know who you are addressing, I think vocabulary-policing is off-putting. That sort of thing is alienating to people who might otherwise be inclined to learn more.

I studied tonal and Jazz theory for three years, so I know the theory definition of ‘tonal’ (if not ‘atonal’, because that’s a lacuna in my education). But if people want to use the terms as a short-hand for music that is harmonically grating to them, I’m not going to police them about it unless they start classifying composers as if from a position of authority, instead of attempting to describe the music they like or don’t like.

On the other hand, I cringe and criticize when people misuse “begs the question”, so who am I to object?

 

[Rednaxela]

People like mayonnaise, which is barbaric.

Huh?

 

[Rednaxela]

Bestand:Patatje met.jpg - Wikipedia

nl.m.wikipedia.org

 

[mhardy6647]

On the other hand, I cringe and criticize when people misuse “begs the question”, so who am I to object?

You're not alone, FWIW.

 

[Geert]

Paintings are different because of the strictly limited supply and their role as stores of wealth and tax dodges.

That's beside the point, it's about seeing the beauty in it.

(And limited supply of paintings, it's actually the opposite. There are more paintings being made than songs. And on most of them you'll loose money).

 

[Multicore]

That's beside the point, it's about seeing the beauty in it.

(And limited supply of paintings, it's actually the opposite. There are more paintings being made than songs. And on most of them you'll lose money).

Ok. But there was discussion of dollar prices, which are truly distracting since our culture often gets confused between money and value.

 

[Sokel]

Most of the posts here are not far from truth but sometimes reality is simple.
Some very smart with a little revolutionary personality and egos the size of planets thought the obvious "pretty much everything beautiful has already been written,one has to follow previous steps" and they hated that.
So what else is there?
But in the end this created some masterpieces.

(and remember,no kid likes fish,we grow up learning to appreciate it... )

 

[ahofer]

our culture often gets confused between money and value.

Thank goodness. I wouldn’t make a living if they didn’t.

 

[Geert]

Ok. But there was discussion of dollar prices, which are truly distracting since our culture often gets confused between money and value.

I only mentioned the price to show that my example painting is a piece that's appreciated in the art businesses.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Luciano Berio: Hold my beer!

This is one of my all-time favorite movements in music!! I like it best (on recording) in a 5.1 SACD from the Seattle Symphony Orchestra and the voices of "Roomful of Teeth!" At the live performance, the singers/speakers were distributed around the hall and, at home, I hear them all around me, some at a distance and some quite close. The whole thing is a delightful rip through many familiar themes (from Mahler and others) and it makes great sense to me.

The Berio/NYP/Swingle on Columbia recording was the premier of the 4 movement version and the Boulez on Erato was also with the Swingle Singers but included a 5th movement that Berio had added in the interim. Of course, the original Columbia and the Erato were stereo but none have the visceral impact of the multichannel SSO. I say that as someone who enjoys many of the recordings of this piece. (A sleeper is the Eötvös/Gothenburg on DGG/Decca.)

 

[Albiepalbie]

Topic for attention

One of the main reasons I got into Roon was music discovery. Both genres I listen to already, but also new genres/artists. I fell over this music (on the radio but still) one day, and I’m presumable just not smart or sophisticated enough to understand the music. It sounds like some random guy sitting down just hammering aimless away on the piano

Are any of you listening to this kind of music (what (sub)genre is it?), and what exactly are you enjoying in the music? I’m serious and don’t want to put anyone down, I’m just very curious, as I don’t understand it and want to learn how and why other people listen to this kind of music.

Thanks!

Direct link to YouTube video

Listen to mesien quartet for the end of time

Topic for attention

One of the main reasons I got into Roon was music discovery. Both genres I listen to already, but also new genres/artists. I fell over this music (on the radio but still) one day, and I’m presumable just not smart or sophisticated enough to understand the music. It sounds like some random guy sitting down just hammering aimless away on the piano

Are any of you listening to this kind of music (what (sub)genre is it?), and what exactly are you enjoying in the music? I’m serious and don’t want to put anyone down, I’m just very curious, as I don’t understand it and want to learn how and why other people listen to this kind of music.

Thanks!

Direct link to YouTube video

You will find you have heard music like this all your life subliminally as

Topic for attention

One of the main reasons I got into Roon was music discovery. Both genres I listen to already, but also new genres/artists. I fell over this music (on the radio but still) one day, and I’m presumable just not smart or sophisticated enough to understand the music. It sounds like some random guy sitting down just hammering aimless away on the piano

Are any of you listening to this kind of music (what (sub)genre is it?), and what exactly are you enjoying in the music? I’m serious and don’t want to put anyone down, I’m just very curious, as I don’t understand it and want to learn how and why other people listen to this kind of music.

Thanks!

Direct link to YouTube video

You will find you have listened to music like this all your life subliminally as film music / background music
One of the best jumping off points for listening, reading and watching films etc is a recognisable context as a jumping off point for following what’s going on
For Messiaen I would recommend the Quartet for the End of Time
I would not recommend Mulholland Drive as the first film by David Lynch to watch - I would recommend the Elephant Man or Blue Velvet
The Dubliners before Ulysses
To go into any creative piece expecting to understand it rather than experiencing it is setting yourself up for a head fuck I think

 

[Albiepalbie]

Try Samuel Barber.

Try Philip Glass
Or Rautovara

 

[Geert]

This is one of my all-time favorite movements in music

There are let's say some disturbing elements in this composition, but most of it is still pretty melodic I think

 

[Killingbeans]

Fair enough but when OP did the same he heard a piano fall down the stairs.

So now there is at least something he’d like to understand about the music. Right?

The way I see it, OP is trying to understand why other people enjoy that kind of music. I guess that's something.

Can't see how that knowledge would be able shift his/her personal taste though.

 

[Axo1989]

This is a very domain-specific definition of ”unsophisticated”, as the subject may be quite deeply aware in other domains. ”Unsophisticated” carries unpleasant negative connotations in a conversation like this. For instance, people who wander into this forum thinking subjective reviews are reliable and dispositive aren’t necessarily “unsophisticated” IMO, they maybe just haven’t engaged with the research of our odd hobby.

I think modern music can raise questions of whether it is simply too abrasive to the vast majority of casual listeners and finding something pleasing has too a high search cost. Thus, the initiates who condescend to the great unwashed masses can seem rather comical. I’m always trying to find something new that I like and I’m willing to suffer the search costs, but I can sympathize with those who see a modern work on a concert program and think they will skip out at intermission for something more comforting.

Good point. Yes, I mean unsophisticated with respect to area of interest and line of inquiry launched by the OP. Not in a general pejorative sense. As I mentioned in the next post, when it comes to jazz and classical, I am pretty unsophisticated.

 

[Axo1989]

People like sour beers, also.

Me especially. When they say there's no accounting for taste, that's just how it Gose.
As those tastes are known, I was given many sours for xmas: the gwei-lo rainbow sherbet sour was deliciously dissonant. Of course, if you drink too many you may fall down the stairs yourself.

People like mayonnaise, which is barbaric.

I'm not much of a mayo fan either. But the mayo you make yourself tastes altogether different.

 

[dtaylo1066]

Me especially. When they say there's no accounting for taste, that's just how it Gose.
As those tastes are known, I was given many sours for xmas: the gwei-lo rainbow sherbet sour was deliciously dissonant. Of course, if you drink to many you may fall down the stairs yourself.



I'm not much of a mayo fan either. But the mayo you make yourself tastes altogether different.

Yup, my point, be it beer, music, wine or women/men, we all have our different tastes. Most modern atonal music is not my thing, either, but like all things, you have to at least give it a try. And some tastes are acquired.