New to the hobby...question

[jperls]

What do you think they will accomplish?

Well both subwoofer cables are right next to each other...and they are literally jutting up against the main power cord and internet cable (its a very tight space that eveything is running under)...so tighter/cleaner bass for starters...

Make his system look expensive?

Lol...expensive on the cheap (remember I only paid $10 for a set of 9 of these...some of these cable lifters I saw on amazon wer $130 for a set of 8 or $12 per lifter. Plus if they don't work...free towel hangers for me

 

[jperls]

Now with this all being said about cable lifters...yesterday was a big day for me with this system...did some measurements with REW and EQ'd the system to the room....MASSIVE, MASSIVE, MASSIVE difference. I was lacking in the 2k and 12 - 16k ranges based on my listening position...see attached

First screenshot is the measurement...second screenshot is the equalizer setting. Now...this equalizer is run through the computer (Boom 2 because I am on a Mac). Going to eventually get a dedicated DSP and re-run as needed (only have a graphic equalizer...where as the DSP will have a proper parametric equalizer so I can adjust width)...will also pull up one of the harman target curves as a guide to use...used my ears and a semi-linear curve for this adjustment.

As a reminder for the measurement screenshot...be aware of the vertical axis scale...its very small...so the differences look quite drastic. Also note...this was measurements for main speakers only...did not measure sub because of crossover and since the sub;s job is to only add a little bit of presence to the instruments...that was EQed by ear.

@amirm...thoughts on these settings appreciated.

 

[Angsty]

Well both subwoofer cables are right next to each other...and they are literally jutting up against the main power cord and internet cable (its a very tight space that eveything is running under)...so tighter/cleaner bass for starters...

Lol...expensive on the cheap (remember I only paid $10 for a set of 9 of these...some of these cable lifters I saw on amazon wer $130 for a set of 8 or $12 per lifter. Plus if they don't work...free towel hangers for me

Watch these first:

Electromagnetic Interference in Speaker Cables? (video)

So this is in response to Danny of GR research video where he puts two coils next to each other saying the same problem exists with speaker wires. I show in video the effect of mains coupling into speaker cables:

www.audiosciencereview.com

RF Interference in Speaker Cables??? (video)

I don't know how I got dragged into this :) but thought I do a video showing the proper effects of RF on speaker cables and what it takes to demonstrate audibility. I thought it needed to be done even though I did not want to engage in any tit for tat type of videos.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jperls]

Ended up cancelling my order for my "cable stands"...plugged the ports on the Elacs and tightened up the bass very fast . Still think I have a little room treatment to do (break up a couple of reflections on the wall behind the listening position...but will measure everything with REW before doing everything.

Next upgrade will be stand alone DSP (thinking miniDSP)...but that will be in a couple of months.

 

[jperls]

Ok...been with this system for a little bit (listen to it every day)...starting to get the upgrade itch...really like the speaker and subwoofer combination...but am wondering what DAC I should get next (or should I get a cd player instead)? Budget is under $600

 

[Angsty]

Ok...been with this system for a little bit (listen to it every day)...starting to get the upgrade itch...really like the speaker and subwoofer combination...but am wondering what DAC I should get next (or should I get a cd player instead)? Budget is under $600

I have a Topping D70s. It’s a nice DAC and cost less than $600. It’s got Bluetooth and balanced outputs. It sounds fine, but I really can’t tell the difference in the sound from either my Bryston or my Schiit Modi when using CD-resolution sources,

A DAC would be the last component that I’d recommend upgrading because most sound so similar.

 

[jperls]

I have a Topping D70s. It’s a nice DAC and cost less than $600. It’s got Bluetooth and balanced outputs. It sounds fine, but I really can’t tell the difference in the sound from either my Bryston or my Schiit Modi when using CD-resolution sources,

A DAC would be the last component that I’d recommend upgrading because most sound so similar.

If most sound so similar...why are there so many different choices? I must admit for the brief time that I had the SMSL DO300, I did notice a difference between it and the Schiit Modius...the DO300 was a little more analytical and better with the mid-range than the modius is. If the quality wasn't so bad...I would be looking at another SMSL...but am afraid to. The "end game" dac I am thinking of looking into would be the Denafrips Ares 12th edition...based on the reviews. I wish there was a hi-fi store near me that I could go listen to these...but alas there is not.

 

[Angsty]

Most competent DACs differ audibly by level, not character. There are lots of threads in ASR about this. DACs do vary by features, but that does not drive the cost differences much. DACs are a niche market so price premiums are to be expected.

 

[ZolaIII]

@jperls

Ok...been with this system for a little bit (listen to it every day)...starting to get the upgrade itch...really like the speaker and subwoofer combination...but am wondering what DAC I should get next (or should I get a cd player instead)? Budget is under $600

to quote you

Ended up cancelling my order for my "cable stands"...plugged the ports on the Elacs and tightened up the bass very fast . Still think I have a little room treatment to do (break up a couple of reflections on the wall behind the listening position...but will measure everything with REW before doing everything.

Next upgrade will be stand alone DSP (thinking miniDSP)...but that will be in a couple of months.

Flex is about 500$.

 

[jperls]

Ok so I scratched the upgrade itch...got a Yamaha S303 cd player to replace the $40 dvd player I am using (that thing is noisy...). With the "pure direct mode", I can have it operate as a transport since it will bypass the internal dac...so I think this will be a good player (was originally looking at the Cambridge Audio CXC V2 transport...but let me see what the yamaha does (should match nicely with the yamaha amplifier).

Also, it didn't make sense to me that I have spend as much as I have and only have a $40 dvd player act as a transport for this system (plus I want to bypass the DVD's internal DAC)...so this should work for now

 

[Galliardist]

Ok so I scratched the upgrade itch...got a Yamaha S303 cd player to replace the $40 dvd player I am using (that thing is noisy...). With the "pure direct mode", I can have it operate as a transport since it will bypass the internal dac...so I think this will be a good player (was originally looking at the Cambridge Audio CXC V2 transport...but let me see what the yamaha does (should match nicely with the yamaha amplifier).

Also, it didn't make sense to me that I have spend as much as I have and only have a $40 dvd player act as a transport for this system (plus I want to bypass the DVD's internal DAC)...so this should work for now

I think someone should develop a cream for "upgrade itch" as when people treat it with hardware, it keeps coming back.

 

[jperls]

Ok so the upgrade itch is scratched...well sort of....got the Yamaha CD player today and thought I would be able to use the pure direct mode with ditgital output to the Modius DAC. Well, I was wrong...to use the digital output, you cannot use the "pure direct" mode of the CD player (meaning the DAC is supposedly engaged). So the question I have is if I have the unit coaxial out to my Modius...it is effectivley running thorugh two DACs...or does the unit possibly recognize taht it is hooked up to an external DAC and lets the Modius do its thing (or is it "double processed")?

Starting to wonder if I should return the unit and spend the money on the Cambridge Audio CXC V2 Transport?

Many thanks

 

[Galliardist]

Ok so the upgrade itch is scratched...well sort of....got the Yamaha CD player today and thought I would be able to use the pure direct mode with ditgital output to the Modius DAC. Well, I was wrong...to use the digital output, you cannot use the "pure direct" mode of the CD player (meaning the DAC is supposedly engaged). So the question I have is if I have the unit coaxial out to my Modius...it is effectivley running thorugh two DACs...or does the unit possibly recognize taht it is hooked up to an external DAC and lets the Modius do its thing (or is it "double processed")?

Starting to wonder if I should return the unit and spend the money on the Cambridge Audio CXC V2 Transport?

Many thanks

The digital out on a CD player just sends the digital stream from the CD (with error correction and interpolation applied) to the DAC at the other end. So your player is working as a CD transport, just as the Cambridge would.

It's possible that the Cambridge has a better drive mechanism, but I doubt you'd notice. Compare the two on the basis of looks, features, quality of the remote if any, etc.

From Yamaha's website:

The CD-S303 offers Pure Direct, which is the same popular feature included in Yamaha amplifiers and receivers. By pressing the button on the front panel or on the remote control, it shuts down the digital audio output and turns off the display. This achieves the lowest possible noise interference and, therefore, the highest sound quality of the analog audio output.

So Pure DIrect does the opposite of what you wanted.

My advice these days is, where possible, only to buy a device where you can download and read the manual online, or find a comprehensive description of what the product does, before purchase.

Basic measurements, at least, as well, for the purpose you have in mind, if available.

Never assume.

 

[jperls]

The digital out on a CD player just sends the digital stream from the CD (with error correction and interpolation applied) to the DAC at the other end. So your player is working as a CD transport, just as the Cambridge would.

It's possible that the Cambridge has a better drive mechanism, but I doubt you'd notice. Compare the two on the basis of looks, features, quality of the remote if any, etc.

From Yamaha's website:

So Pure DIrect does the opposite of what you wanted.

My advice these days is, where possible, only to buy a device where you can download and read the manual online, or find a comprehensive description of what the product does, before purchase.

Basic measurements, at least, as well, for the purpose you have in mind, if available.

Never assume.

Thanks for the detailed response...so I will keep the Yamaha...it sounds much better than the DVD player (a lot less noisy) and it looks great with the Yamaha amp (which I run in pure direct mode all the time to bypass the internal dac of the amp).

 

[jperls]

Ok...so now I have a very technical question:

When I play music on my computer, it sounds sort of compressed...less open than it does on my CD player (computer hooked up to Modius via USB). I thought this was due to the computer having ACC files (not lossless) on it. So I hooked up an external CD drive to my computer and played audio directly from the drive to see if the problem was due to the ACC compression of the music.

NOPE...

When compared to my Yamaha CD player, the music still sounds "compressed" and tight vs open and more present when using my Yamaha CD player (lightyears better than my $40 dvd player in the noise department and smoother operation).

Anyone have any ideas?...thought I was bypassing the internal DAC of the macbook by using the modius...but something is happening here in the signal chain from the computer to the DAC and the CD player to the dac that makes it sound vastly different.

Computer is a 2022 MacBook Pro running iTunes...nothing else. Any software recommendations to fix this problem?

 

[Galliardist]

How are you running iTunes on a 2022 Mac?

 

[jperls]

How are you running iTunes on a 2022 Mac?

Sorry...the "Music" app (formerly known as iTunes). Note...I do not have an apple music subscription.

 

[Galliardist]

OK. I want you to try the following:
Import the CD into Apple Music using the Apple Lossless encoder. This gives us a lossless copy on the computer, easier for this purpose than going through lossy encoder settings.
Secondly, open the Audio MIDI setup application on your Mac, and make sure whichever DAC you are using has its format set to: I think it's 2ch, 16 bit integer, 44.1kHz (I don't have a Mac to check that)
Thirdly, in the Sound Control Panel, select Output, choose your DAC, and make sure volume is 100%.
Turn the sound well down at your amp.
Now play the imported lossless file in Music, and turn up the volume on the amp back to your normal listening level.

Does this improve the sound from the computer?

 

[jperls]

OK. I want you to try the following:
Import the CD into Apple Music using the Apple Lossless encoder. This gives us a lossless copy on the computer, easier for this purpose than going through lossy encoder settings.
Secondly, open the Audio MIDI setup application on your Mac, and make sure whichever DAC you are using has its format set to: I think it's 2ch, 16 bit integer, 44.1kHz (I don't have a Mac to check that)
Thirdly, in the Sound Control Panel, select Output, choose your DAC, and make sure volume is 100%.
Turn the sound well down at your amp.
Now play the imported lossless file in Music, and turn up the volume on the amp back to your normal listening level.

Does this improve the sound from the computer?

Somewhat...tried all that you said above....even switched "system effects" to the Modius...still sounds "compressed"...so I am scratching my head...there must be some artifact in the computer or something.

I wonder if its the usb cord (don't shoot me yet)...very cheap 6ft usb A to usb C with a usb A--> adapter...wonder if I should just get a USB C to USB C cord (also a little shorter...wonder if that might be it (the adapter might be screwing things up.

 

[Galliardist]

You'll need now to go through the Audio MIDI setup for the device, item by item, and check what it should be. If you have volume control sliders in Audio MIDI, for example, you'll need to set those to 199% as well. Make sure the speakers are set up as two channel there as well. Since I can't see what settings you have, I can't tell if anything is wrong.

For software, you could try a trial version of Audirvana, which is an expensive product to buy but works around some of the Mac audio shortcomings. Of course, you'll just need to know how to set that up instead!

If those suggestions don't work, you may need to turn to a level matched blind test to confirm what is different. And you can search for Mac on this forum to see what other solutions people have tried and used.

There is, of course, also always the headphone out socket to try with a converter to RCA and see what that does!