New to the hobby...question

[Angsty]

I can understand that some people prefer passive speakers for flexibility and modularity; all my systems have had passive speakers. I’ve also tended to prefer separate preamps and power amps to integrateds for similar reasons.

However, it’s a different thing to say that powered or active speakers are less reliable or lower quality than passive speakers and power amps. That seems to me to be much more dependent on the manufacturers.

Personally, my next floorstanding speaker purchase is likely to be the KEF LS60, an outstanding example of an active speaker. It will probably save me a lot in a separate power amp, DAC, subwoofers, cables, and preamp to get a similar result that’s easier to setup and control.

 

[jperls]

Your Yamaha is an integrated amp; it combines a pre-amp and a power amp into a single housing. No - you do not need a pre-amp unless you plan to buy a power amp instead of your current integrated amp.

A pre-amp provides signal switching from multiple source devices to a power amplifier. It is sometimes called a control amplifier. It also provides volume control for a power amp which generally has a fixed amount of voltage multiplication (“gain”) for the output to the speakers. It “pre-amplifies” signals, either up or down, going to the power amplifier.

As an example, my old NAD 1600 preamp was separate from my NAD C272 power amp. The 1600 provided the control functions (also using a remote control) but the C272 did the “heavy lifting” of voltage and current to power the speakers. Your Yamaha does both functions in one box instead of two.

Having two separate boxes allowed me to upgrade from a 50W Proton power amp to the 150W C272 while keeping the 1600 preamp in place.

Hooray...this means I can save some money. I though the "Integrated" meant that there was a DAC in the amp...not that it is a pre and regular amplifier...guess that is a bonus then.

Now looking down the road (at least 6 months or so)...what are people's thoughts of me replacing the Modius with a Denafrips Ares II (I hear there is a firmware upgrade to it that allows it to mimic the Ares 12th anniversary)....thoughts?

 

[recycle]

Can someone explain what a "warm" sound is? Does a warm sound really exist or is it a term that means nothing? How do you measure temperature of sound, does anyone have a sonic thermometer?

 

[ZolaIII]

Can someone explain what a "warm" sound is? Does a warm sound really exist or is it a term that means nothing? How do you measure temperature of sound, does anyone have a sonic thermometer?

A slight bass level elevation (last 4 octaves from 250 Hz to 20 Hz) is what's considered like "warm sound".

 

[recycle]

A slight bass level elevation (last 4 octaves from 250 Hz to 20 Hz) is what's considered like "warm sound".
View attachment 287396

Are you telling me that it is enough to turn the bass knob to get the warm sound?

 

[ZolaIII]

Are you telling me that it is enough to turn the bass knob to get the warm sound?

Probably yes if bass is properly EQ-ed already and driver's stressed out.

 

[recycle]

Probably yes if bass is properly EQ-ed already and driver's stressed out.

I see people spending tens of thousands of dollars to get that warm sound, now you tell me you just turn a bass knob to get it? There is something unclear here

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I see people spending tens of thousands of dollars to get that warm sound, now you tell me you just turn a bass knob to get it? There is something unclear here

Is this bait?

 

[recycle]

Is this bait?

yes

 

[ZolaIII]

I see people spending tens of thousands of dollars to get that warm sound, now you tell me you just turn a bass knob to get it? There is something unclear here

People do lot of things which doesn't have sense but when you tell them they have to learn and make effort them self they run away. Best components won't sound good misplaced in a bad room and there is no magic wand for it. Every little bit counts.

 

[jperls]

And another "upgrade" (this one is more visual if anything)...wrapped the subwoofer to match the speakers...looks fantastic IMO.

 

[LTig]

What amps do Neuman and Genelac use? I suspect nothing special.

Active speakers don't need "special" amplifiers because they drive just one chassis without crossover so the load is light. My K&H O300D from 2004 uses chip amps in class AB, one each for mid and high and two in bridge mide for the bass. SQ is fantastic. The most important parameter is low noise.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Active speakers don't need "special" amplifiers because they drive just one chassis without crossover so the load is light. My K&H O300D from 2004 uses chip amps in class AB, one each for mid and high and two in bridge mide for the bass. SQ is fantastic. The most important parameter is low noise.

You made my point.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Active speakers don't need "special" amplifiers because they drive just one chassis without crossover so the load is light. My K&H O300D from 2004 uses chip amps in class AB, one each for mid and high and two in bridge mide for the bass. SQ is fantastic. The most important parameter is low noise.

Actually they are very special customised with DSP and crossover to the exact driver to the exact speaker.
Which actually makes it a problem when it goes bust and can't be repaired and can't be sourced.

 

[LTig]

Actually they are very special customised with DSP and crossover to the exact driver to the exact speaker.
Which actually makes it a problem when it goes bust and can't be repaired and can't be sourced.

As I wrote mine use standard chip amps (TDA...) any decent repair shop can buy and replace. Crossover is analog and uses standard opamps as well. Nothing fancy just good design.

I do agree that a DSP based crossover relies on the brand to be able to repair it, hence one should buy from reputable brands known to make products with long life and a good repair history.

Eventually it's the user's decision. Buy a comparatively cheap active speaker with SOTA sound with a somewhat higher risk of a short life, or either invest the same amount of money into a mediocre sounding passive speaker with power amp, or a significantly higher amount of money in a similarly good sounding (if available) passive speaker / power amp combo. The facts are on the table. I took this decision in 2004 and bought only active speakers since then (Klein & Hummel, Genelec, JBL) and none has failed so far (though both K&H needed a new switch you could buy in a radio shop).

 

[Angsty]

This is such a red herring - quibbling over active or passive. Buy quality, with good resale value. The latter is more measurable.

There are no guarantees with either passive or active speakers. I know of no studies that demonstrate a lifespan difference; what I have heard is conjecture.

My “end game” passive speakers I’ve had for over 15 years: Thiel CS6s. Thiel made very high quality speakers but effectively went out of business over a decade ago when the brand was sold to private equity. Now there is one guy in Kentucky who does repairs and that’s about it. If I lose a tweeter, I’m at his mercy.

My favorite “legacy” active was the Paradigm Active/20. After 25 years, they still have good resale value for their age and can still be serviced by Paradigm.

Nearly every home subwoofer sold today is active because it makes sense for the use case. As with any speaker choice, a newbie needs to decide for their use case what makes sense and buy a quality unit that can be readily resold when the urge to upgrade hits. Actives can work in some use cases where passives are more problematic.

I once recommended Kanto powered speakers and a turntable with an onboard phono for a family with a 12-year old who was new to vinyl but enthusiastic. It made sense for their use case.

 

[jperls]

And I just bought some cable lifters...now before everyone starts crying snake oil and all that jazz...please hear me out...these "lifters" are actually plastic clothes pins for beach towels...$12 for 9 of them...plus some sorbothane padding to coat the inside and feet so they will stand...if they don't work, then at least I have something to hang my towels with so they can dry. Mainly going to use it on my subwoofer cables since they are right next to each other...unshielded, and are a high-level input from the amp to the speaker. I do have extremely short cable runs in my system (less than 6ft or so to everything)...but still going to give this a try. Again, if they don't work I am out $20 and instead have something to hang towels with

Thoughts?

 

[Doodski]

And I just bought some cable lifters...now before everyone starts crying snake oil and all that jazz...please hear me out...these "lifters" are actually plastic clothes pins for beach towels...$12 for 9 of them...plus some sorbothane padding to coat the inside and feet so they will stand...if they don't work, then at least I have something to hang my towels with so they can dry. Mainly going to use it on my subwoofer cables since they are right next to each other...unshielded, and are a high-level input from the amp to the speaker. I do have extremely short cable runs in my system (less than 6ft or so to everything)...but still going to give this a try. Again, if they don't work I am out $20 and instead have something to hang towels with

Thoughts?

Yes, don't coil up your wires and all will be fine.

 

[Angsty]

And I just bought some cable lifters...now before everyone starts crying snake oil and all that jazz...please hear me out...these "lifters" are actually plastic clothes pins for beach towels...$12 for 9 of them...plus some sorbothane padding to coat the inside and feet so they will stand...if they don't work, then at least I have something to hang my towels with so they can dry. Mainly going to use it on my subwoofer cables since they are right next to each other...unshielded, and are a high-level input from the amp to the speaker. I do have extremely short cable runs in my system (less than 6ft or so to everything)...but still going to give this a try. Again, if they don't work I am out $20 and instead have something to hang towels with

Thoughts?

What do you think they will accomplish?

 

[LTig]

What do you think they will accomplish?

Make his system look expensive?