Electromagnetic Interference in Speaker Cables? (video)

[amirm]

So this is in response to Danny of GR research video where he puts two coils next to each other saying the same problem exists with speaker wires. I show in video the effect of mains coupling into speaker cables:

 

[Tks]

Look at Amir with that eyebrow and smile on the video image.

EDIT: You sure we can't lick live wire? I don't believe in measurements, I like to feel how many watts of power some of my stuff outputs..

 

[diddley]

You are a brave man Amir, you are not making friends around the internet community's.
But that's not what's it all about is it...measurements and science is leading.
Thank you for a great debunk!

 

[xarkkon]

My wife and I have undergone a blind AB testing (the guy swapped out the interconnects without our knowledge) and detected audible differences from a change in inter-connects.

That being said, that audible difference to me didn't seem like a case of having something that was "better", just different and maybe even worse. For all I know, the "better" cable could have been engineered to result in a less-than-pristine response to market it as being audibly "better".

I actually appreciate both Danny and Amir for taking their time to do this as I definitely am learning a lot from both of them. My main issue with Danny's videos so far is that they have not shown me how the pricier cable is better than the cheaper cable. He has shown basic scientific effects and extrapolated their effects into justifying cables. I'm open to his videos as I do want to see the science from all angles, and I'm hoping he can show more.

I do hope that this to-and-fro can continue without devolving into a snark fest (which happens so often). Yeah, both have different view points with potentially different motivations, but a logical objective non-emotional discussion is such a joy to witness. I'm hoping it stays above the fray!

 

[restorer-john]

So this is in response to Danny of GR research video where he puts two coils next to each other saying the same problem exists with speaker wires.

So where is Danny of GR Research's video? A link perhaps, so we can see what this tit-for-tat is all about?

I've found this one. Is this it?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

So where is Danny of GR Research's video? A link perhaps, so we can see what this tit-for-tat is all about?

I've found this one. Is this it?

Yes.

 

[restorer-john]

Well as I see it, both Amir and Danny's videos are not proving anything and each is coming from completely different directions and positions.

Danny's video is a mess and Amir's uses a powered up IEC mains cable with zero current flowing through it, alongside a loopback speaker cable to the AP. That proves nothing. Hang an amplifier, or high current device off the mains IEC cable and place them alongside each other and please show us the results.

Everybody knows inductors in X/overs, filters/ PSUs etc are always placed at right angles (and spaced) and have been since Adam was a boy. We all know why. No re-discovering the wheel here.

Amir doesn't discuss at all, the orientation of the cables to one another (merely winds a random coil on his hand using both cables).

Nobody (not Amir or Danny) in either video, show the actual ability of that lovely tubular/helical woven speaker cable in various orientations/stretch to reduce or reject adjacent EM coupling or interference. Surely, that is what this entire exchange is about?

 

[Wombat]

The target audience of the video in question(not Amir's) needs a direct test comparison on the cables presented vs reality, rather than an EE general presentation of the laws of physics.

Sad but true.

 

[JStewart]

Any reason to believe a mains line next to an inter-connect or HDMI cable will be different?

 

[Wombat]

Any reason to believe a mains line next to an inter-connect or HDMI cable will be different?

It will be but generally insignificantly so.

 

[restorer-john]

Any reason to believe a mains line next to an inter-connect or HDMI cable will be different?

HDMI cables have a phenomenally good shields, up to 7 of them. You could run an arc welding cable alongside an HDMI cable, I reckon with no errors...

 

[Lambda]

Coiling an power cable dose not increase the inductance! (in differential mode)
The the current flowing in should be the same as the current flowing out so it cancels out.

Also there was no current in your power cable and therefore no magnetic field and therefore no inductance

You "debunked" Inductive coupling by testing exclusively capacitive coupling?!

amirm must know all of this? why you chose not to talk about this?

 

[JSmith]

My wife and I have undergone a blind AB testing (the guy swapped out the interconnects without our knowledge) and detected audible differences from a change in inter-connects.

What does this have to do with the price of fish (i.e. this video)? I don't think audible changes when dealing with analogue cables/interconnects of different gauge, capacitance etc. is in dispute... there is nothing mystical about that at all.

I'm open to his videos as I do want to see the science from all angles, and I'm hoping he can show more.

Why, you want him to show you more bullshit?



JSmith

 

[milosz]

Speaker wires do act as inductors but in a normal domestic environment only tiny currents are induced in them, which won't impact sound quality of a stereo system.

There are some circumstances, however, where stronger currents could be induced. I would not, for example, drape my speaker wires over the 150 kva power distribution transformer that supplies my city block with power. Doing so might induce a bit of audible 60 Hz hum.

Also probably would be wise to site your speaker wires a reasonable distance away from the Large Hadron Collider, as there are some wicked AC magnetic fields there. Military rail guns should also be avoided if possible. Large electric motors, like those driving diesel-electric locomotives, could also cause trouble, so move any of those out of your living room.

Stay away from magnetars, too. They're big trouble.

Frankly I'm surprised anyone with even basic knowledge of physics would think that putting a large coil next to a speaker wire proves anything, except, don't put a large electromagnetic coil next to your speaker wires.

 

[GGroch]

.......Nobody (not Amir or Danny) in either video, show the actual ability of that lovely tubular/helical woven speaker cable in various orientations/stretch to reduce or reject adjacent EM coupling or interference. Surely, that is what this entire exchange is about?

I hope Amir responds to some of your earlier points, but I do not think the discussion of whether Danny's cables reject EM interference is the topic. The argument is whether EM interference rejection makes any difference in speaker cables in any realistic use case.

 

[Wombat]

I hope Amir responds to some of your earlier points, but I do not think the discussion of whether Danny's cables reject EM interference is relevant at all. The argument is whether EM interference rejection makes any difference in speaker cables in any realistic use case.

It is about convincing the misled/ brainwashed who don't understand science. Show me, don't tell me.

 

[restorer-john]

I hope Amir responds to some of your earlier points, but I do not think the discussion of whether Danny's cables reject EM interference is relevant at all. The argument is whether EM interference rejection makes any difference in speaker cables in any realistic use case.

That is the entire premise. Electromagnetic coupling requires a current somewhere to be induced in another conductor somewhere adjacent.

Amir's "test" shows nothing. There is no current in the un-terminated IEC cable. The mains active and neutral are unterminated and floating, no current is flowing and no load is attached. It's just an antenna for a highly sensitive front end (The AP). Of course it will pick up mains spurs.

At least "Danny's" test involves a load (the first inductor) driven by a source, EM coupling (stacking the coils), and a resultant signal in the tweeter. Misguided? Totally. Proves anything? Nope.

 

[respice finem]

You sure we can't lick live wire?

You can lick anything once that's like with mushrooms, some are edible many times, and others just once

 

[Rick Sykora]

That is the entire premise. Electromagnetic coupling requires a current somewhere to be induced in another conductor somewhere adjacent.

Amir's "test" shows nothing. There is no current in the un-terminated IEC cable. The mains active and neutral are unterminated and floating, no current is flowing and no load is attached. It's just an antenna for a highly sensitive front end (The AP). Of course it will pick up mains spurs.

At least "Danny's" test involves a load (the first inductor) driven by a source, EM coupling (stacking the coils), and a resultant signal in the tweeter. Misguided? Totally. Proves anything? Nope.

@ctrl already did the more realistic test. It is posted here... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iophile-cable-truths.20428/page-4#post-682914

You are correct as all this is known good practice and does not require 5 videos to explain. The more videos the more obfuscation and advertising for his special cable.

 

[fmplayer]

My wife and I have undergone a blind AB testing (the guy swapped out the interconnects without our knowledge) and detected audible differences from a change in inter-connects.

That being said, that audible difference to me didn't seem like a case of having something that was "better", just different and maybe even worse. For all I know, the "better" cable could have been engineered to result in a less-than-pristine response to market it as being audibly "better".

I actually appreciate both Danny and Amir for taking their time to do this as I definitely am learning a lot from both of them. My main issue with Danny's videos so far is that they have not shown me how the pricier cable is better than the cheaper cable. He has shown basic scientific effects and extrapolated their effects into justifying cables. I'm open to his videos as I do want to see the science from all angles, and I'm hoping he can show more.

I do hope that this to-and-fro can continue without devolving into a snark fest (which happens so often). Yeah, both have different view points with potentially different motivations, but a logical objective non-emotional discussion is such a joy to witness. I'm hoping it stays above the fray!

Let me tell you a short story. Long time ago, I used to have a pair of Dahlquist DQ10 loudspeakers, which had a potentiometer to regulate mid-hi level. With a friend of mine, we listened to some tracks with me tweaking the level until we were both satisfied. Differences were noticeable. Maybe 2 weeks later, I found that the potentiometer wasn't connected on both speakers. But we heard what we heard didn't we ? NO. We heard a difference where we expected to hear one. This is an example of placebo effect.

Biggest differences happen with loudspeakers (macro scale), for the rest it's only micro scale with cables having the smallest influence, assuming they don't have some weard construction as it sometimes happens with highend stuff. And so show you measurements.