New to dac/amps

[PhoenixJ]

Hi, I purchased the Hd560s when they came out and I love them.
But I know a little bit about dacs and amps and was wondering a couple of things about them.
Will they provide better sound than a laptop?
They get loud enough on my laptop and there is no hissing or anything, though I miss a bit more volume on them.
And I might purchase something a bit heavier like 600 or something else.
So if a dac/amp could improve my sound now, I might as well invest in a budget one.

There is not a huge selection where I live, Denmark. I can purchase the FiioE10k, Fiio k3 or the sound blasterx g6. I can order the Schiit Hel 2 or Schiit stack from Eu.
I don't need a mic input, but I like the one-unit-for-everything that comes with the Hel 2.
It is twice as expensive as those I've listed, though I don't mind spending more if the Hel 2 is more futureproof / can run most headphones , so I don't need to upgrade if I end up purchasing 600ohms or something like that. So best bang for the buck

 

[twsecrest]

The Schiit Fulla 3 DAC/amp would do the job.

 

[PhoenixJ]

I was thinking more of, what I could potentially need in the future, would a schiit stack/hel not be a better option?

 

[Count Arthur]

I recently bought a pair of HD560s. I really like them, they're super light, very comfortable and I think I prefer the sound to the HD650 I had a while back, although I had already sold the 650s when I got the 560s, so I was unable to do a direct comparison and I'm only going from memory.

The problem with latpops and desktops is that quality of the onboard/inbuilt sound varies a lot. On some makes and models it might be fairly decent, whereas with others, its pretty poor. As such, how much improvement you might get over what you have is difficult to predict.

A couple of alternative "all-in-one" dac/amps:

https://jdslabs.com/product/element-ii/

https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...-dsd1024-wireless-decoder-headphone-amplifier

https://rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html

 

[caught gesture]

If the output volume is good enough on your laptop, I would not think there is any reason to buy something else. What are the specs on your laptop? I’m using a 2011 MacBook when I listen with headphones and have never thought I needed more of anything. What lets the listening experience down is always the quality of the recording and my subjective take on the song. If you have an itch that needs scratching though, and are suffering from FOMO, there are a myriad of companies offering to appease your fears and pander to your biases. Check out the review section on this site and find one that fits your budget/availability.

 

[PhoenixJ]

https://www.proshop.dk/Baerbar/Lenovo-Legion-5-15ARH05H/2876018
I got this model, I don't know much about what soundcard etc. there is in it..
I just wondered, considering I use my headphones everyday, if it was worth buying a dac/amp, if it could improve my sound..

I've seen some having issues with the new Hel 2.. But if this or ifi audio zen dac v2 ( very new ), could improve my sound, I am willing to buy it.
I really don't know if I'm spending money on something that can or cannot improve the sound.. And I could buy something like Fiioe10k here where I live, but I am willing to spend extra like on the Hel 2 ( about 270 euros whereas the Fiioe10k is about half )

 

[Veri]

If the output volume is good enough on your laptop, I would not think there is any reason to buy something else. What are the specs on your laptop? I’m using a 2011 MacBook when I listen with headphones and have never thought I needed more of anything.

My 2015 MacBook also has a very respectable built-in headphone output, really.

I've seen some having issues with the new Hel 2.. But if this or ifi audio zen dac v2 ( very new ), could improve my sound, I am willing to buy it.
I really don't know if I'm spending money on something that can or cannot improve the sound.. And I could buy something like Fiioe10k here where I live, but I am willing to spend extra like on the Hel 2 ( about 270 euros whereas the Fiioe10k is about half )

At work I use a ~$20 meizu dongle, which sounds very good to me. I'm thinking about replacing it with the ~$100 E1DA 9038d.

 

[PhoenixJ]

My 2015 MacBook also has a very respectable built-in headphone output, really.

It's a jungle tbh. Some say, unless you need volume, don't buy anything.
Others say : with a good dac/amp, you will get better sound.
And here I am, a complete noob not knowing what to do. Hence why I came here, asking the questions a lot have been.
I really want to know if a dac/amp could improve my sound, cause then I wouldn't mind buying it.
And if so, what to buy? A new ifi zen dac v2 is out and avaliable here where I live. For around 100-120 bucks more I could get the schiit stack and/or the Hel 2. I don't need the mic input, but I like having one unit instead of 2.
And I want the one best for it's price, if I ever go further, for example buying beyerdynamic 250ohm or 6xx..

 

[Veri]

I really want to know if a dac/amp could improve my sound, cause then I wouldn't mind buying it.
And if so, what to buy? A new ifi zen dac v2 is out and avaliable here where I live. For around 100-120 bucks more I could get the schiit stack and/or the Hel 2. I don't need the mic input, but I like having one unit instead of 2.
And I want the one best for it's price, if I ever go further, for example buying beyerdynamic 250ohm or 6xx..

If you want the best for its price, it's better to get separate unit than one. So the Schiit stack, Liquid spark dac/amp stack, or JDS atom dac/amp stack are all same price range, and can drive those beyer and 6xx quite easily. I would say it is quite likely that those will provide better/cleaner output than your Lenovo laptop, especially with more difficult loads. Also I would not get the Zen Dac, it isn't very powerful..

 

[PhoenixJ]

Also I would not get the Zen Dac, it isn't very powerful..

They did make a new version of it, but I don't know how much power it would have compared to the old one.
Some have said, that the Hel 2 measured around the same as the schiit stack?

 

[Veri]

They did make a new version of it, but I don't know how much power it would have compared to the old one.
Some have said, that the Hel 2 measured around the same as the schiit stack?

The V2 of the Zen Dac has only got some USB part upgrades. It has no updated specs besides that that I'm aware of. And yes Hel 2 is about the same, but due to its form factor it's more "disposable" imo, the knob might turn bad or scratchy over time. It's not in the same class as those separate stacks. But if form factor is priority it is a nice package..

 

[caught gesture]

https://www.proshop.dk/Baerbar/Lenovo-Legion-5-15ARH05H/2876018
I got this model, I don't know much about what soundcard etc. there is in it..
I just wondered, considering I use my headphones everyday, if it was worth buying a dac/amp, if it could improve my sound..

I've seen some having issues with the new Hel 2.. But if this or ifi audio zen dac v2 ( very new ), could improve my sound, I am willing to buy it.
I really don't know if I'm spending money on something that can or cannot improve the sound.. And I could buy something like Fiioe10k here where I live, but I am willing to spend extra like on the Hel 2 ( about 270 euros whereas the Fiioe10k is about half )

It looks like a well specced and reviewed laptop. When you say improve your sound, what do you think you are lacking at the moment? You can buy yourself an external dac/amp and then convince yourself that it is a “night and day” difference. Cognitive biases abound! The only way you will really know is with some abx testing (you’ll need someone else to do the switching over for you). I’ve been down this rabbit hole. The marketing creates an idea that what you have is substandard and that you are missing out on some sort of nirvana of sound quality. You buy a budget upgrade. Then you worry that the upgrade can be bettered with another upgrade. You buy a more expensive unit and the old unit goes in a cupboard. On it goes, all initiated by an idea that was planted in your brain by marketing. An idea that was never actually scientifically verified. That’s my possibly cynical take on the whole idea. Spend your money buying music and supporting artists (preferably through bandcamp!)

 

[AdamG]

They did make a new version of it, but I don't know how much power it would have compared to the old one.
Some have said, that the Hel 2 measured around the same as the schiit stack?

Welcome Aboard @PhoenixJ.

 

[PhoenixJ]

It has no updated specs besides that that I'm aware of.

https://hifitrends.com/2021/04/24/i...improved-zen-dac-v2-dac-amp-available-in-may/
It states something about 16 core xms whereas the old model has 8. But it is still weaker than schiit?

It's not in the same class as those separate stacks.

But if they measure about the same, it is only the "you can upgrade one part at a time" factor that is different?

When you say improve your sound, what do you think you are lacking at the moment?

Nothing really. It plays fine. no distortion or scratching. No strange audio. I just wanted a tad bit more, well.. Volume. And figured, if I needed an amp, why not get a dac.. Or both in one unit. Cause it is a bit odd, some people say they can hear a world of difference, others nothing. I just wondered if I could get better sound from my headphones than my laptop can produce. And if that is the factor, then what options should I go for.
Hence why I came here, cause it is rather of a jungle

Welcome Aboard

Thank you

 

[Veri]

https://hifitrends.com/2021/04/24/i...improved-zen-dac-v2-dac-amp-available-in-may/
It states something about 16 core xms whereas the old model has 8.

That's just a digital part that will not affect the volume/analogue performance, not really. I don't think there's much of a discernible difference between V1 and V2. It's not so much a 'Zen Dac 2' but rather a V2, with an updated part and that's basically it. iFi loves their marketing though.

sure about the same, it is only the "you can upgrade one part at a time" factor that is different?

Well yeah, I guess

 

[PhoenixJ]

Well yeah, I guess

Ah okay. But it is still odd to me, many suggest buying this, cause their laptop does not provide with good sound. And I will never figure it out until I buy something. It's not that I am displeased with my onboard sound, but it could just be me never have heard anything better..
So if it could sound better, I am willing to upgrade my system..

 

[Veri]

Ah okay. But it is still odd to me, many suggest buying this, cause their laptop does not provide with good sound.

There is many people easily swayed by buying fancy new boxes and immediately being convinced how much better it all is though. Some people are more sceptical, especially with desktop PCs whose motherboards often come with quite 'good' class of audio output, after buying something like a Fiio E10K/K3/K5 Pro they don't really notice any difference. If you have one of those pricy Asus motherboards, I think it only makes sense that it's not bad right out of the box, so yeah with a sceptical mindset you might not be happy with your dac/amp then. If you didn't particularly want some knob to turn for volume, you might have indeed wasted your money then.

Anyway. My advice, buy a $10 apple usb-c dongle (or $20 meizu usb-c dongle) and check if you can hear any difference at all from those. That'd be a good indicator OR buy something on amazon, try it for a bit and return it if not convinced. That's another way..

 

[PhoenixJ]

There is many people easily swayed by buying fancy new boxes and immediately being convinced how much better it all is though.

Was about to ask, why people buy stuff if it can't make a difference. But it is quite odd, some people and even good reviewers state, that from a laptop to dedicated dac/amp is night and day difference. But yeah I might buy that apple thingy.. And an amp, cause I think I will need a bit more power, I often have these on 100 percent and still a bit low'ish, but thanks for all the explanations. Someone says one thing, others say another, it can be tricky to find out, especially when you are used to the sound your pc produces and starts to wonder if a schiit stack could improve on it

 

[Veri]

Was about to ask, why people buy stuff if it can't make a difference. But it is quite odd, some people and even good reviewers state, that from a laptop to dedicated dac/amp is night and day difference. But yeah I might buy that apple thingy.. And an amp, cause I think I will need a bit more power, I often have these on 100 percent and still a bit low'ish, but thanks for all the explanations. Someone says one thing, others say another, it can be tricky to find out, especially when you are used to the sound your pc produces and starts to wonder if a schiit stack could improve on it

Problem with most reviewers, like the ones on youtube, they all have a story to sell. Watch enough of them and you'll want to buy new headphones and other goodies, haha

 

[Count Arthur]

Bear in mind that when you connect a USB DAC to a PC or Laptop in asychronous/bit perfect mode, you are bypassing all the internal signal processing by the PC or Laptops internal DAC and Windows. Depending on what audio circuitry is in you PC or Laptop and how deleterious Windows' signal processing is, this could be beneficial.

The audio circuitry in most laptops and PCs is usually pretty basic, maybe a couple of dollars worth of components on the motherboard.

https://techsupport.cambridgeaudio....diophile_s_Guide_To_Bit_Perfect_USB_Audio.pdf

Any chance you could borrow something and try it out?