New mysterious Genelec monitors

[Newman]

The reason the Beolab 90 is so unique is that you can tailor the sound to the recording.

For instance, I have really well recorded albums that are well suited to a narrow directivity speaker. The kind of recordings where you want to extract every last bit of information and you don't want the room coloring the sound. For that, use the 'narrow' mode.

I also have recordings that are pretty crummy. For those, the additional ambience that you get from the 'wide' mode can provide a forgiving presentation for an iffy recording.

It's a really neat trick

I don’t think much of your suggested use case. Not sure B&O meant it that way either.

Given that you are almost certainly talking about 2 channel playback when discussing Beolab 90s and using them this way, let’s remember that wide dispersion is often preferred for 2 channel even with reference grade recordings. Using narrow dispersion and relatively restricting the soundstage to a thin line between the speakers doesn’t make sense.

And as for ‘crummy’ recordings, they are far more likely to have issues with their spectral balance than their reverb, so better to adjust the bit that’s causing the problem, with a decent tone control. Furthermore, if I wanted added ambience, that’s not the way to do it.

cheers

 

[dasdoing]

for less than $150 per channel

not if you have to import all the pieces to Brazil lol
but maybe, some day

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'm starting to like the way they look

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Hopefully they make one or two more and scale everything down

 

[Pearljam5000]

Hopefully they make one or two more and scale everything down

Or just sell the top part without the dual subs

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm always a bit wary of coaxial compression drivers. JBL M2 has one, a bunch of the Danley speakers do too.

I can understand why they choose to use them, but the complexity and the cost just go through the ceiling. You can get a quality compression driver for about $75-$150 each, but as soon as you go the coaxial route, prices go up 300%

The coaxial compression driver in the JBL M2 (JBL D2) was intended to be the foundation for a series of coaxial compression drivers, but after everything was said and done, they only came out with one additional model, which landed in their Vertec line arrays IIRC. So I'm guessing the cost and complexity of a small-ish coaxial compression driver wasn't worth it, and they focused on conventional annular ring compression drivers.

Law of diminishing returns in full effect.

Not an issue if price is no object, and I imagine that Genelec is starting out with a Tour De Force here and will likely add additional models that are cheaper and a LOT smaller.

Selling it without the subs is a no-brainer too; nearly all of the really difficult bits are in the engineering for the midbass, midranges and tweeter.

 

[ferrellms]

Is the GLM measurement kit mandatory for the 8381a? They say the crossover frequency is variable and determined after you calibrate the 8381a in GLM.
I have no doubt that GLM is a great room correction but after seeing what Dirac ART can do it might be the better overall correction software for large immersive setups.

I've only seen comparisons between old GLM versions and Dirac so things might be different now (ignoring Dirac ART). Has anyone compared GLM 4.2 to Dirac Live Bass Control?

It would be hard to imagine how to beat Genelec engineers on this kind of thing, they support the largest high-end immersive studios out there.

 

[voodooless]

I'm always a bit wary of coaxial compression drivers.

It’s not that thoughtful. It’s a coaxial with a compression driver. The second driver is actually part of the horn throat. It has a flat surround to create a totally smooth transition to the rest of the horn. Crossover is high enough so that excursion is minimized.

Also, the JBL D2 isn’t exactly a coaxial compression driver. Both diaphragms are the same and get the same signal. They work together and are not band-limited in respect to each other like a normal coaxial.

 

[juliangst]

It would be hard to imagine how to beat Genelec engineers on this kind of thing, they support the largest high-end immersive studios out there.

Well I don't know. GLM compared to Dirac it looks a lot less sophisticated and doesn't do as much correction (which may be desired or not) and Amir's review of GLM also showed that.
For the 8381a I totally see the point in using GLM because of the crossover points but for an entire system and multiple seats I would trust Dirac and Dirac ART a lot more.

Is GLM still only doing frequency correction and no phase correction?
I only know that it adjusts phase for subwoofers. Long FIR filters could also have pre-ringing and add more delay which is not desired in mastering and mixing setups.

In my opinion Dirac is miles ahead of any auto EQ based correction system. Through phase correction (or whatever Dirac does) the soundstage almost gets half a meter deeper and happens behind the speakers almost inside the wall.

 

[RobL]

If you are in Germany, you can attend a demonstration of the 8381A’s (and other Genelec setups) next week in Heilbronn.

 

[Pearljam5000]

He says in the video that there's a directivity error
Do you agree ?

 

[TonyJZX]

I'm starting to like the way they look
View attachment 294245

how's this make sense?

if the speakers partially block the glass and your bass units are blocked by the mixing desk... it seems... non optimal

and if i'm spending $75k i would want... 'optimal'

 

[Pearljam5000]

how's this make sense?

if the speakers partially block the glass and your bass units are blocked by the mixing desk... it seems... non optimal

and if i'm spending $75k i would want... 'optimal'

You can always buy PMC or ATC instead

 

[TonyJZX]

this has all the energy of me buying speakers way too big for my living environment but i use a grimace smile when i say "this sounds great"

 

[Pearljam5000]

this has all the energy of me buying speakers way too big for my living environment but i use a grimace smile when i say "this sounds great"

You should buy them and send them to Amir
I'm actually surprised no one on ASR bought them

 

[Curvature]

He says in the video that there's a directivity error
Do you agree ?

Yes, it's right there in the measurements at 1kHz.

how's this make sense?

if the speakers partially block the glass and your bass units are blocked by the mixing desk... it seems... non optimal

and if i'm spending $75k i would want... 'optimal'

The desk has no effect on bass frequencies.

 

[Anthony LoFi]

You should buy them and send them to Amir
I'm actually surprised no one on ASR bought them

I know you are kidding Pearl.
The reason why the general ASR forum contributor has not brought them is the same logic we comment on.
Most of us are amateurs.
The comments on this and other threads similar astound me.
These are probably state of the art speakers that deliver at high SPL.
A company like Genelec with a known ability to design and manufacturer such accurate speakers is a fact.
Genelec would not have spent a small fortune in R & D to get to the manufacturing stage without doing their homework.
Their customers are professionals that rely on the reproductive system meeting minimum requirements.
Do we think these customers can be hoodwinked by marketing?

This line of speakers have the main advantage of being a direct replacement for existing systems.
You can install in a day, without any works to the room and be able to prove to the owner an AB comparison.
No ladders or scaffolding required. Genelec can prove if their system is better for the customer over their existing system.
The comment above about not being able to hear the bass because the desk is in the way?
Are bass frequencies that directional, really....Think about it.

I am grateful a Genelec engineer has posted on this thread a number of Q&A.
These guys know their stuff. And are willing to a point to answer valid questions.

 

[holdingpants01]

Well I don't know. GLM compared to Dirac it looks a lot less sophisticated and doesn't do as much correction (which may be desired or not) and Amir's review of GLM also showed that.
For the 8381a I totally see the point in using GLM because of the crossover points but for an entire system and multiple seats I would trust Dirac and Dirac ART a lot more.

Is GLM still only doing frequency correction and no phase correction?
I only know that it adjusts phase for subwoofers. Long FIR filters could also have pre-ringing and add more delay which is not desired in mastering and mixing setups.

In my opinion Dirac is miles ahead of any auto EQ based correction system. Through phase correction (or whatever Dirac does) the soundstage almost gets half a meter deeper and happens behind the speakers almost inside the wall.

The point is GLM doesn't have to be as extreme as Dirac just because it works only with Genelec SAM monitors, which are flat and properly designed to begin with. Dirac have to deal with all speakers out there. GLM does indeed correct the phase only where it's needed, as their speakers are phase aligned from the factory. I compared Dirac with Bass Control for my 8351Bs with two 7260 subs to my GLM based system and I didn't like Dirac at all. To me it sounded phase'y, lifeless and scooped, GLM on the other hand doesn't change anything above around 500Hz in my room and yes, you can say it's less sophisticated, but that's precisely why I think it's better for Genelec SAM monitors. However Dirac can't do anything close to directivity mode on W371A and 8381 if it have one, so in this regard it's less sophisticated.

 

[Blockader]

Well I don't know. GLM compared to Dirac it looks a lot less sophisticated and doesn't do as much correction (which may be desired or not) and Amir's review of GLM also showed that.
For the 8381a I totally see the point in using GLM because of the crossover points but for an entire system and multiple seats I would trust Dirac and Dirac ART a lot more.

Is GLM still only doing frequency correction and no phase correction?
I only know that it adjusts phase for subwoofers. Long FIR filters could also have pre-ringing and add more delay which is not desired in mastering and mixing setups.

In my opinion Dirac is miles ahead of any auto EQ based correction system. Through phase correction (or whatever Dirac does) the soundstage almost gets half a meter deeper and happens behind the speakers almost inside the wall.

Via GLM you can activate phase correction(between the drivers of speakers). This is what phase linearity does to 8361 for example:

Speakers with flat on-axis response should not be EQd above the room transition frequency(x3) based on the in-room response. It introduces more problems than it solves. There are multiple ways to eliminate pre ringing caused by linear phase filters.

 

[juliangst]

This is different from what Dirac does.

Filters in Dirac correct phase for the speakers+ room while Genelec monitors (and Hedd monitors as well) just use linear phase filters to improve the speaker performance (without any room measurement).
If you place them in any room they’re not minimum phase anymore.

New Dirac ART is hard to beat if it really works as well as advertised.

Speakers with flat on-axis response should not be EQd above the room transition frequency

That’s why everyone should limit the correction range in Dirac or any correction software.