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Need help identifying system weakness

Chainicin

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I have a Cambridge Audio CXA61 connected by optical USB to a desktop running plexamp. Speakers are a pair of Klipsch rp-600m and a svs sb2000 subwoofer.

High quality FLAC files pale in comparison to any vinyl I play on the CXA61. The CXA61 is supposed to have a great dac, but I'm no expert.

I really don't want to pay for roon. The price is outrageous.

I also have a Yamaha wxc50 I could put in there but want to keep the plexamp ui so not sure how that would help. I really hope to use plexamp so any recommendations on hardware are what I prefer.

Any help?
 

MaxwellsEq

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FLAC files pale in comparison to any vinyl
Hi and welcome.

It would help a lot if you were more specific about what "paling in comparison" means to you. For example, is there a frequency imbalance with FLAC? Is stereo imaging less stable? Is sound quieter?

It would also help if we knew more about your desktop. If it's Windows have you disabled all enhancements and are you using exclusive mode?

You could swap amplifiers as an experiment, so that would identify if the Cambridge is faulty.
 

voodooless

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not sure how that would help
Help with what? What is the problem you have?

You may want to try EQ'ing the speakers:


1705484208094.png
 
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Galliardist

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We can still take a guess though. Guess what? We have measurements courtesy of our host, and a headless panther for the speakers:


At a guess your vinyl setup is reducing the high frequency boost which will make things a lot better. Add some bias on your part in favour of vinyl, conscious or otherwise, and it's going to sound better.

You could apply some EQ to your digital side to improve things. That can be done on the PC using Equalizer APO, instructions are on the site somewhere.

You don't need to buy Roon.

Personally I'd replace the speakers if the money was available, anyway.
 

Galliardist

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We can also help more if we know something about the setup - room size, speaker placement, furnishings, whether this is a desktop setup, and such.
 
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Chainicin

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I will try that EQ app. Thanks. I have fiddled with the EQ in plexamp to get it as close to desirable as possible. Still a gap from vinyl.

The difference I describe with my terrible vocabulary. The vinyl sounds like the instruments are separated from one another while the flac files feel more a single sound. It's not a gigantic difference, but everyone hears it. And not just separation of instruments, but also notice a separation of high vs low notes. Just feels much fuller on vinyl.

I have some old paradigm towers I can try in place of the Klipsch.

Setup is Windows desktop that picks up the CXA61 as the audio out via audio USB. There isn't much tweaking I can find with that. I read to maybe select wasapi exclusive but can't figure out where to do that. The dac in the receiver has no interest, if that's where it's normally done.

Room is 20 feet long and 15 feet deep, 12 feet high, but speakers are pointed to a couch 8 feet away and that's where I listen.

I am totally satisfied with the vinyl sound and just want to close the gap with flac sound.

Thanks for the helpful guidance.
 

DVDdoug

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Electronics make a tiny-tiny difference, or no difference at all (in proper blind listening tests). That's assuming you have enough amplifier power and no major defects/problems. The most likely issue with electronics is noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). But since the surface noise on records doesn't bother you, it shouldn't be a problem.

Different speakers will ALWAYS make a difference (for better or worse) and different acoustic environments also make a difference.

Technically, vinyl is inferior to digital... The main defect is noise. There is always some noise. For example, digital is silent between tracks, records are not and you can hear the difference if you stop the rotation with the stylus in the groove. Usualy there are some clicks & pops. Sometimes there is audible distortion, and the frequency response is not as flat as digital across the audible range.

Because of the high-amplification, phono preamps tend to be noisier than other electronics, and the high-impedance makes them more prone to noise pick-up. The electrical noise isn't always audible, and once the stylus is on the record the record noise usually drowns-out any electrical noise.

You can digitize vinyl and it will sound identical to the vinyl (again, in a proper blind test).

If you like the sound of vinyl, that's OK. Many people prefer it. If it sounds better to you, you can say it sounds better and no one can argue! Some of the "defects" may be characteristics you like.

And some older records were made before the digital Loudness War,* and the dynamics may be better than the digital re-master. Or, the record may be a different mix or master or a completely different recording and you may prefer that version. (Most modern vinyl is made from the same digital master as the digital releases, but it's not usually known.)

Note that the process of cutting & playing a record changes the wave shape making some peaks higher and some lower. That can make the dynamics measure better and some people will claim the vinyl is more dynamic. But, it doesn't affect the sound of the dynamics. ...MP3 compression does similar things to the wave shape and it will usually measure more dynamic than the uncompressed original.




* There was a loudness war in the vinyl days but they didn't have the "advanced digital weapons" that are available today.
 
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MaxwellsEq

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Setup is Windows desktop that picks up the CXA61 as the audio out via audio USB. There isn't much tweaking I can find with that. I read to maybe select wasapi exclusive but can't figure out where to do that. The dac in the receiver has no interest, if that's where it's normally done
I think you are listening to digital being crushed by Windows internal limiter and other processing tools. At the moment I don't think you are hearing the digital stuff as it's engineered to be heard. Until you fix this, you can't compare it LPs.

Unfortunately, you need to do some work. Either buy a streamer like the Wiim or set your PC up correctly.

Fortunately, the work has already been done for you! This thread about Fixing Windows Sound Quality is all you need!

 
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Chainicin

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EAPO installed and being able to adjust the pre-gain to -.07 from -4 is most of the battle. Major improvement.

I am totally clueless on the equalizer settings, though. I noted the EQ settings on spinorama but don't know how to use the individual q and gain values in the equalizer bars, if that is even applicable. I installed the REW wizard but it's overwhelming and am hoping to avoid learning it.

Is there a simple way to translate channel q and gain values to the bars on the equalizer?

Thanks so much. Making big progress
 

voodooless

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EAPO installed and being able to adjust the pre-gain to -.07 from -4 is most of the battle. Major improvement.
That would be curious, it’s only a gain difference. Louder will usually sound better. Dialing up the volume will also fix this.
I am totally clueless on the equalizer settings, though. I noted the EQ settings on spinorama but don't know how to use the individual q and gain values in the equalizer bars, if that is even applicable.

Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO download | SourceForge.net

The input fields are right there. You may have chosen a different type of EQ?

Be careful with low pre-gain and large boosts in the EQ: it will make clipping very likely.
 
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Chainicin

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Apparently there is more than one piece of software called equalizer APO! Have installed per screenshot. On my way! Thanks
 

MaxwellsEq

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Where to get this program? Seems cool
 

MaxwellsEq

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Most people find PEACE a useful tool for operating EAPO
 

MaxwellsEq

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I am totally clueless on the equalizer settings
Everybody starts clueless at everything! The more you experiment and read, the less clueless you will be. Sadly, there are very few shortcuts to becoming cluefull.
 
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