need help figuring out a dB thing from a Tidal vs UAPP experiment.

[baalzimon]

I have never been able to get Tidal to play in bit-perfect "exclusive mode" while UAPP asks me every time. They sound the same to me, but I wanted to devise an experiment to see if they actually are the same. I can log into Tidal through UAPP and play the same source material (CD quality 16/44.1 FLAC) from either app. My phone is plugged into a modi+ DAC via USB.

I took the analog output of my modi and sent it to my PC line-in and recorded with Audacity.

There were three recordings of the same 7 seconds of the same track (Aja):

• BP1 = UAPP bit-perfect mode #1
• BP2 = UAPP bit perfect #2
• Tidal = Tidal high quality

BP1 would be the control wave that the other two recordings were compared to.
BP2 and Tidal were the test waves.

After recording I did the following:

• all three waves were aligned manually aligned to the exact same sample (I zoomed all the way in)
• all three were cropped to the same length.
• all three were volume normalized to -22dB RMS (all were within 1.5dB to begin with)
• dB and Tidal were inverted and then subtracted from BP1. If a comparison wave was exactly the same as the control wave, then the mix result would be a completely flat line.

results:

• BP1-BP2 had an RMS of -57dB
• BP1-Tidal had an RMS of -50dB

Conclusions (I may need to repeat each recording several times to make sure they are self consistent, but if we assume that they are then) it seems that Tidal is different than UAPP on bit-perfect mode. (I also recorded Tidal 320kbps and Tidal 96kbps and their differential waves came out to -44.7dB and -44.0dB respectively, meaning they are even more different from BP1 than Tidal 16/44

Questions:

• does this mean that the difference between Tidal and BP1 was -28dB, which would mean that they only differed by about 1/1000th of the original signal's strength?
• is there a way for my PC to record or analyze the digital output of these apps?
• does anyone at all know why Tidal has never offered me the option to play in bit-perfect mode? (samsung A50 andoid 11)

 

[Jimbob54]

I have never been able to get Tidal to play in bit-perfect "exclusive mode" while UAPP asks me every time. They sound the same to me, but I wanted to devise an experiment to see if they actually are the same. I can log into Tidal through UAPP and play the same source material (CD quality 16/44.1 FLAC) from either app. My phone is plugged into a modi+ DAC via USB.

I took the analog output of my modi and sent it to my PC line-in and recorded with Audacity.

There were three recordings of the same 7 seconds of the same track (Aja):

• BP1 = UAPP bit-perfect mode #1
• BP2 = UAPP bit perfect #2
• Tidal = Tidal high quality

BP1 would be the control wave that the other two recordings were compared to.
BP2 and Tidal were the test waves.

After recording I did the following:

• all three waves were aligned manually aligned to the exact same sample (I zoomed all the way in)
• all three were cropped to the same length.
• all three were volume normalized to -22dB RMS (all were within 1.5dB to begin with)
• dB and Tidal were inverted and then subtracted from BP1. If a comparison wave was exactly the same as the control wave, then the mix result would be a completely flat line.

results:

• BP1-BP2 had an RMS of -57dB
• BP1-Tidal had an RMS of -50dB

Conclusions (I may need to repeat each recording several times to make sure they are self consistent, but if we assume that they are then) it seems that Tidal is different than UAPP on bit-perfect mode. (I also recorded Tidal 320kbps and Tidal 96kbps and their differential waves came out to -44.7dB and -44.0dB respectively, meaning they are even more different from BP1 than Tidal 16/44

Questions:

• does this mean that the difference between Tidal and BP1 was -28dB, which would mean that they only differed by about 1/1000th of the original signal's strength?
• is there a way for my PC to record or analyze the digital output of these apps?
• does anyone at all know why Tidal has never offered me the option to play in bit-perfect mode? (samsung A50 andoid 11)

I think there were issues with the implementation of tidal app doing bit perfect with usb dacs. I dont think it works even if the prompt comes up on detection.

I'm not competent to talk to the significances in the differences in captured files nor if that can be improved on.

But I'm pretty sure in your tidal app on phone to dac situation the signal will be going out via the generic android mixer and therfore resampling to 48khz sample rate. How well that is done might explain the diffferences you're seeing. Or maybe not. But at least you don't have to worry about it being audible.

 

[baalzimon]

I think there were issues with the implementation of tidal app doing bit perfect with usb dacs. I dont think it works even if the prompt comes up on detection.

I'm not competent to talk to the significances in the differences in captured files nor if that can be improved on.

But I'm pretty sure in your tidal app on phone to dac situation the signal will be going out via the generic android mixer and therfore resampling to 48khz sample rate. How well that is done might explain the diffferences you're seeing. Or maybe not. But at least you don't have to worry about it being audible.

I won't be able to hear it because the difference is -28dB below signal? I should really do a flac vs 320kbps test too, I may not be able to hear that either. but there's some weird psychological thing with me (us audiophiles) that music sounds better if we don't have to worry about theoretical loss in quality.

 

[Jimbob54]

I won't be able to hear it because the difference is -28dB below signal? I should really do a flac vs 320kbps test too, I may not be able to hear that either. but there's some weird psychological thing with me (us audiophiles) that music sounds better if we don't have to worry about theoretical loss in quality.

Didn't you say in your first post you couldn't hear a difference?

 

[baalzimon]

Didn't you say in your first post you couldn't hear a difference?

correct, but part of that may be that it takes so much time to switch everything over from one app to the other that I can't do a proper AB switch switch test. so while i don't think I can hear a difference, I wanted to measure if there was a difference, or confirm that they are the same. The same thing happens when I try to test headphones. the time to swap them makes it hard to really compare.

 

[Esss]

Looks like an old post but - might help someone. Tidal exclusive mode stopped working on my phone last week. Today I uninstalled UAPP and now Tidal works as intended. Re-installed UAPP - Tidal exclusive mode stopped working again. It is a bit fiddly requiring a couple of tries to get it to work but when UAPP is installed - it pretty much stops working altogether. Quick test to try it out. Hope it works for you.

 

[baalzimon]

Looks like an old post but - might help someone. Tidal exclusive mode stopped working on my phone last week. Today I uninstalled UAPP and now Tidal works as intended. Re-installed UAPP - Tidal exclusive mode stopped working again. It is a bit fiddly requiring a couple of tries to get it to work but when UAPP is installed - it pretty much stops working altogether. Quick test to try it out. Hope it works for you.

thanks, but I gave up and bought a wiim mini, which plays direct, and is also wireless, which is really nice.

 

[Esss]

thanks, but I gave up and bought a wiim mini, which plays direct, and is also wireless, which is really nice.

Oh yes - I have a Wiim mini as well, it works a treat. However, if you wish to get FLAC, you currently have to use the Tidal app. I understand sometime later in the year - the Wiim (along with other third party streamers) will eventually get access to FLAC from Tidal.

 

[baalzimon]

Oh yes - I have a Wiim mini as well, it works a treat. However, if you wish to get FLAC, you currently have to use the Tidal app. I understand sometime later in the year - the Wiim (along with other third party streamers) will eventually get access to FLAC from Tidal.

I prefer the Tidal app, it helps me discover new music.