NAD M66 - finally someone makes a decent 2-channel preamp!

[vddobrev]

Thanks. I wouldn't want 2 boxes and cables to achieve a streamer preamp, and presumably 2 remote or apps to control the pair in your system. I'm sure Anthem DSP is similar to Dirac Live and I've had experience of both - with Anthem in a Martin Logan speaker system I had for a few months. I'm not an advocate of any "room correction" DSP that requires the entire frequency range to pass the filter, even if only the bass is adjusted, although the ML speakers applied Anthem to just its bass amp. Any other suggestions for a single-box streamer preamp? I have a short-list but most are 2 to 5 times the price of the M66.

What source will you plug in to the pre-amp?
If, like me you have an analogue source (Pioneer SACD Player) and a multichannel receiver (NAT T778) to integrate, and share the subwoofers between the stereo pre-amp and the multichannel receiver, then you better remove M66 from your short-list.
Sound quality-wise, I am pleased with M66, and also with the streamer I am pleased.
It is the pre-amp functionality for other sources than streaming that sucks. I think the biggest mistake with M66 is to let the BluOS app be its control. I am sure there are certain limitations with BluOS, and this could be one of the reasons why so many issue remain unresolved.
It should have had its own OSD and setup menu. It has on OSD but limited to the touch screen, and it does not have all settings (e.g. Audio settings), that you must open BluOS app to set.
Audio settings should have been per-source, like each source must have its own audio properties.
In any case - good luck with your search, and do keep me posted, as I am also in the looks for a replacement of M66. So far Anhem STR is the only one in my list.

 

[slaweks]

Are you certain about that? I don't ever remember mention of DLDB when I bought my M33 5 years ago. In fact I didn't think that DBLC had been released at that time. Please provide a NAD link from the release date of the M33 that even mentions DLBC. Thanks

I am quite sure I saw it mentioned quite prominently on some NAD pages. But unfortunately I do not remember where. But at least, looking at some old version of the product page, e.g.

M33 - NAD Electronics

In its simplest form, the M33 BluOS™ enabled DAC/amplifier is an ultra-high-performance streaming amplifier with superb audiophile sound. As a BluOS enabled component, the M33 can be combined with other players in a BluOS ecosystem of wirelessly networked music players throughout the home for an...

web.archive.org

I can see at the bottom "*Some features will be available via a future software update; Full Dirac Live and Bass Control upgrades can be purchased through the Dirac Live software."

 

[Nocko!]

See my post above - Anthem STR Preamp has a dedicated bypass for L/R and 2 subs, so that the AVR can control all Dirac corrections. I consider this the correct implementation for proper HT Bypass. Sadly I will probably part with M66 soon, like you.

Yes - I loved my Anthem DV2. If I wasn't a Dirac-Fanboy I would have bought a STR (if I had to buy something else than my ML last year). The STR looks like a great preamp/controller for a larger system with its well-thought-out options...
I never thought about SACD - never had a player... But it's a shame that it is not allowed to get the digital signal from a SACD. So if you want to try Dirac or something else in the digital domain, you have to do an unnecessary D/A conversion more. That's sad.
Nocko!

 

[Nocko!]

Can those continually bitching about the NAD M66 please suggest an alternative streamer preamp that offers either better sound quality, or more features, or better value for money than the M66?

Despite the whinging here that needs a big pinch of salt to even digest, the M66 seems to have few if any rivals at anywhere near its price point. What other streamer preamp offers DLBC (for what that's worth) and does the basic job of delivering high quality music from internet-based sources, or one's own library, or from vinyl, etc better than the M66? Thanks from a potential M66 (or rival) buyer.

That's the point - there is no alternative, especially when you want DLBC. But the mass of features doesn't rectify the faults...

...so I would go for a separate streamer and the Anthem STR if I was in your shoes. And use ARC!

And your are right, beside sound quality and its enclosure there is nothing I like at the M66.

Your point is: One box, looking good, sounds great as long as you use DLBC and digital or internal sources - and you're right.

My point is: There are by far to many faults. If you don't need DLBC and a one-box-solution there are a lot of other options. If you already have a transparent preamp, you simply don't need the M66. Every separate streaming device for a few hundred dollar will fulfill your needs...
Nocko!

P.S.: Why don't you simply buy the M66? You seem to be convinced of it...

 

[Nocko!]

not sure about support for the M66

It's a joke....

 

[Hear Here]

Your point is: One box, looking good, sounds great as long as you use DLBC and digital or internal sources - and you're right.

My point is: There are by far to many faults. If you don't need DLBC and a one-box-solution there are a lot of other options. If you already have a transparent preamp, you simply don't need the M66. Every separate streaming device for a few hundred dollar will fulfill your needs...
Nocko!

P.S.: Why don't you simply buy the M66? You seem to be convinced of it...

You have my "point" quite wrong. "sounds great as long as you use DLBC" isn't why I would like it as I prefer not to use DL, so couldn't / wouldn't use DLBC either. I have a genuinely full-range speaker system that has sufficient bass manipulation features that I don't want to spoil the accurate signal that my amps feed it.

Your point seems to be that you are asking it to do things no audio amplifier with its own control app is likely to be able (or needs) to deliver.

I would already have bought the M66 by now if I had been convinced that its audio performance was a big step up from the M33 I currently use. The M66 lacks the feature whereby the M33 can display artwork and other information on a TV screen via HDMI. The temptation to use the Sub outs to feed the bass sections of my speakers has been scuppered by the unfortunate fact that the M66 Sub Outs (and those of the M33) are mono only, even when the NAD knows there are 2 or 4 subs attached. What's worse is the fact that the M66 and M33 (though not their predecessor, the M12 and M32) deprive the Main Out as soon as you say there are Subs present. Crazy.

These are the main reasons for my hesitation and the search continues for a possible alternative. These include HiFi Rose RS151 and Eversolo A10 (both relatively low cost) or Mark Levinson 519, Auralic Vega G2, Lumin P1, Grimm MU2 and Esoteric N-05XD (all much more costly) and most need Roon hardware and subscription to offer as good a user interface as BluOS. Other suggestions welcome.

 

[Nocko!]

You have my "point" quite wrong. "sounds great as long as you use DLBC" isn't why I would like it as I prefer not to use DL, so couldn't / wouldn't use DLBC either.

Sorry, I did that on purpose ... I think a lot of costs of the M66 went into Dirac Live Bass Control and the four subwoofer outputs. I understood that you won't use DLBC, so you shouldn't pay for it.

Though I am a ML fan I wouldn't go for the No 519. It reminds me of the ML No 40 surround processor that was outdated before it reached the market. I think it is too pricey for the risk of loosing one or a few of the streaming options one day. Keep in mind that the manufacturer sometimes has to upgrade the device if Tidal, Apple or one of the streaming services makes changes to their APIs / services. That is one of the main reasons why I wouldn't go for pricey a one-box-solution. Looking at your options I would go for the Hifi Rose or the Eversolo because of the quite large displays. I like the look of the M66 and its display but from my listening point it was still a little bit too small for my eyes. But that is a very personal criteria. Thinking about it... If I would use streaming service I would try to use my TV as a streamer, at least for low resolution services like Spotify...
Sorry, I'm getting off track and not being very helpful. Perhaps it would help others here if you could elaborate on your requirements a bit more. I forgot what you need
- Room correction not required
- Phono MM/MC required?
- Large/small display required?
- 2 or 4 preamp outputs required (XLR/RCA)?
- IR remote control required, or is an app sufficient?
- do you want to search and control your music at the device or will you use an app or a browser?
- what about headphones...?

The M66 lacks the feature whereby the M33 can display artwork and other information on a TV screen via HDMI.

THAT is a cool feature
Nocko!

 

[Stix]

doesn’t require

That's the point - there is no alternative, especially when you want DLBC. But the mass of features doesn't rectify the faults...

...so I would go for a separate streamer and the Anthem STR if I was in your shoes. And use ARC!

And your are right, beside sound quality and its enclosure there is nothing I like at the M66.

Your point is: One box, looking good, sounds great as long as you use DLBC and digital or internal sources - and you're right.

My point is: There are by far to many faults. If you don't need DLBC and a one-box-solution there are a lot of other options. If you already have a transparent preamp, you simply don't need the M66. Every separate streaming device for a few hundred dollar will fulfill your needs...
Nocko!

P.S.: Why don't you simply buy the M66? You seem to be convinced of it...

I’m looking at the Arcam SA45 instead of the M66. It has what I need with home theater bypass, Dirac, and Tidal connect. Hope to play with it at Axpona.

 

[da Choge]

I’m looking at the Arcam SA45 instead of the M66.

Looks like a great component; like you mention, Streamer/DAC/Preamp/Amp with Dirac and Roon-Ready all-in-one. It will have a larger front display screen than the M66 and true home theater bypass. Of course this is an integrated amplifier and not a preamp like the M66; so you're stuck with its on-board amp, but it looks to be a good one. Only two subwoofer outs, but still a very versatile unit. Trouble is, it's been "Coming Soon" for quite a while now. Hopefully there will be a unit available for review before mid-year or so and you'll get to see a working one at Axpona. It's on my short list and more affordable than separates.

 

[Hear Here]

Sorry, I did that on purpose ... I think a lot of costs of the M66 went into Dirac Live Bass Control and the four subwoofer outputs. I understood that you won't use DLBC, so you shouldn't pay for it.

Wrong - the extra cost of DLBC must be minimal as the M66 price is identical to the M33's initial price.

Sorry, I'm getting off track and not being very helpful. Perhaps it would help others here if you could elaborate on your requirements a bit more. I forgot what you need
- Room correction not required
- Phono MM/MC required?
- Large/small display required?
- 2 or 4 preamp outputs required (XLR/RCA)?
- IR remote control required, or is an app sufficient?
- do you want to search and control your music at the device or will you use an app or a browser?
- what about headphones...?

Let me clarify your list of my requirements!
- Room correction not necessary but no objection for it being there
- No phono needed - or any analogue sources
- Large front panel display needed
- Ideally 2 sets of XLR preamp outputs (for my mono amps and for the bass sections of my AG speakers)
- RC always needed and user-friendly app that must include Android, iPad and Windows
- App OK for music search OK
- Headphone out not essential but happy to have

 

[vddobrev]

Wrong - the extra cost of DLBC must be minimal as the M66 price is identical to the M33's initial price.

Let me clarify your list of my requirements!
- Room correction not necessary but no objection for it being there
- No phono needed - or any analogue sources
- Large front panel display needed
- Ideally 2 sets of XLR preamp outputs (for my mono amps and for the bass sections of my AG speakers)
- RC always needed and user-friendly app that must include Android, iPad and Windows
- App OK for music search OK
- Headphone out not essential but happy to have

How is the M33 not meeting these needs? Two sets of XLR preamp outs is rare, isn't it.
Is my understanding correct, that you now have M33, and you are looking to upgrade to M66, with the hopes of better digital audio (since you said no phono or analogue in needed).
I don't think the DAC in M66 will be miles better that that in M33.
In fact I do not like the DAC in M66, I prefer the DAC in my CD/SACD player. It could be because the filter used in M66 is minimum-phase as per https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m66-streaming-preamplifier-measurements-page-2
In any case, I like the M66 pure analogue pre-amp section, but not the DAC.

 

[Hear Here]

Wait! If I say I have subwoofers in BluOS, then Line Out will be filtered... so I have to say no subs. Then, full signal to mains, and full signal to subs.

Sadly not so with M33 or M66.

If you say No Subs - you get full range to the Main Outs, but NOTHING to the Sub Outs - they are disabled

If your say you are using Subs - you have to chose a single XO and this applies to both the Main Outs and the Sub Outs

Therefore, if you have full-range Main speakers, NAD will nobble them if you say you have subs. You could say No Subs and connect your subs to the spare Pre-Outs (there are XLR and RCA on the M66), and control the sub frequencies from their own built-in XO - but you'd lose DLBC and maybe much of the DL benefits if you are looking to use these.

What's worse! The Sub Out are ALWAYS MONO and not Left and Right if you have 2 or 4 subs.

It's really sad (and I'd say daft) that NAD has abandoned their earlier Sub handling circuit (from the M32 and M12) when you could chose an XO for your Main Out or leave at full range, and independently chose an XO for Subs or leave at full-range. Therefore you could have an XO overlap if this sounded better, or retain full range to the Mains while sending say 80 Hz and under to the subs.

 

[Hear Here]

How is the M33 not meeting these needs? Two sets of XLR preamp outs is rare, isn't it.
Is my understanding correct, that you now have M33, and you are looking to upgrade to M66, with the hopes of better digital audio (since you said no phono or analogue in needed).
I don't think the DAC in M66 will be miles better that that in M33.
In fact I do not like the DAC in M66, I prefer the DAC in my CD/SACD player. It could be because the filter used in M66 is minimum-phase as per https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m66-streaming-preamplifier-measurements-page-2
In any case, I like the M66 pure analogue pre-amp section, but not the DAC.

Thanks for your observations. Yes, I'm using the M33 and thinking of upgrading my electronics as my investment ratio between speakers and electronics is probably out of proportion at 7:1. My speakers possibly deserve better electronics!

I'm looking at a streamer preamp plus separate power amplification. I've bough a pair of Atma-Sphere Class D mono amps, so my next move should be the streamer preamp. Yes - digital only, but there are few such devices that don't offer analogue too - The Mark Levinson 519 being a very costly example of a digital-only streamer preamp - with CD included too. It's rather long in the tooth now and far too costly to be of serious interest. My short list is rather too short as there are very few good streamer preamps to chose from. I'm still looking, and hoping that something spectacular may be introduced soon that will dislodge the M66 from the top of my list!

The M66 DAC is the 9038 PRO from ESS whereas the M33 uses the 9028PRO, so the M66 should be marginally better.

 

[vddobrev]

Sadly not so with M33 or M66.

If you say No Subs - you get full range to the Main Outs, but NOTHING to the Sub Outs - they are disabled

If your say you are using Subs - you have to chose a single XO and this applies to both the Main Outs and the Sub Outs

Therefore, if you have full-range Main speakers, NAD will nobble them if you say you have subs. You could say No Subs and connect your subs to the spare Pre-Outs (there are XLR and RCA on the M66), and control the sub frequencies from their own built-in XO - but you'd lose DLBC and maybe much of the DL benefits if you are looking to use these.

What's worse! The Sub Out are ALWAYS MONO and not Left and Right if you have 2 or 4 subs.

It's really sad (and I'd say daft) that NAD has abandoned their earlier Sub handling circuit (from the M32 and M12) when you could chose an XO for your Main Out or leave at full range, and independently chose an XO for Subs or leave at full-range. Therefore you could have an XO overlap if this sounded better, or retain full range to the Mains while sending say 80 Hz and under to the subs.

Exactly! I am sad too. For now, I use the amp speaker binding posts to Speakon connectors on the sub, those are high level and work remarkably well after I spent a ton of time dialing the filter and volume on the subs.

 

[vddobrev]

Thanks for your observations. Yes, I'm using the M33 and thinking of upgrading my electronics as my investment ratio between speakers and electronics is probably out of proportion at 7:1. My speakers possibly deserve better electronics!

I'm looking at a streamer preamp plus separate power amplification. I've bough a pair of Atma-Sphere Class D mono amps, so my next move should be the streamer preamp. Yes - digital only, but there are few such devices that don't offer analogue too - The Mark Levinson 519 being a very costly example of a digital-only streamer preamp - with CD included too. It's rather long in the tooth now and far too costly to be of serious interest. My short list is rather too short as there are very few good streamer preamps to chose from. I'm still looking, and hoping that something spectacular may be introduced soon that will dislodge the M66 from the top of my list!

The M66 DAC is the 9038 PRO from ESS whereas the M33 uses the 9028PRO, so the M66 should be marginally better.

I wish you good luck in your upgrade, but as you guessed it, I can't and don't recommend the M66.

What is strange is that the DAC in my Pioneer SACD PD-50AE is ESS 9026PPRO, and it sounds way better than the DAC in M66. So it all boils down to the DAC implementation, and not just the chip.

 

[Hear Here]

What source will you plug in to the pre-amp?
If, like me you have an analogue source (Pioneer SACD Player) and a multichannel receiver (NAT T778) to integrate, and share the subwoofers between the stereo pre-amp and the multichannel receiver, then you better remove M66 from your short-list.
Sound quality-wise, I am pleased with M66, and also with the streamer I am pleased.
It is the pre-amp functionality for other sources than streaming that sucks. I think the biggest mistake with M66 is to let the BluOS app be its control. I am sure there are certain limitations with BluOS, and this could be one of the reasons why so many issue remain unresolved.
It should have had its own OSD and setup menu. It has on OSD but limited to the touch screen, and it does not have all settings (e.g. Audio settings), that you must open BluOS app to set.
Audio settings should have been per-source, like each source must have its own audio properties.
In any case - good luck with your search, and do keep me posted, as I am also in the looks for a replacement of M66. So far Anhem STR is the only one in my list.

I am all-digital so no need for phono or other analogue sources to be connected. I'm presently using only 3 external sources -

Opt 1 from my TV when I want better sound
HDMI ARC from the TV when there's a worthwhile concert on TV - better sound than optical
A 2TB SSD plugged into the USB socket - this contains FLAC rips of about 1500 CDs

I don't find any short-fallings with the Settings (apart from the way M33 and M66 now deal with Sub settings as already stated) and I access the Settings menu from the touch-screen or Windows BluOS - I can't be fiddling around with a phone for this!

The only thing from your list that I also find absent is an ability to match the relative volumes of digital sources. Opt 1 from my TV is far too quiet, but I blame the TV for that. Probably better to have one low-volume source than to reduce the volume of the other - SN better with high settings.

Thanks

 

[Hear Here]

Exactly! I am sad too. For now, I use the amp speaker binding posts to Speakon connectors on the sub, those are high level and work remarkably well after I spent a ton of time dialing the filter and volume on the subs.

That is an alternative and I suppose you also achieve stereo signals for your subs, but you still lose out if wanting to use DLBC.

 

[pogo]

The M66 DAC is the 9038 PRO from ESS whereas the M33 uses the 9028PRO, so the M66 should be marginally better.

DAC Chipset M33
Dual ESS ES9028QM (each run in mono mode)

 

[vddobrev]

I heard back from NAD support regarding HT Bypass - they are still working on it and no ETA.

 

[Hear Here]

I’m looking at the Arcam SA45 instead of the M66. It has what I need with home theater bypass, Dirac, and Tidal connect. Hope to play with it at Axpona.

I think the Arcam, would be an alternative to the NAD M33, not the M66 as latter has no power amp. Looks good though for its £3K price