My Topping E70 is defective. Skipping issue

[NiagaraPete]

Ok, TVs are outputting out of spec, fine. Clearly it’s not complete garbage as the AKM part locks reliably. What I want to know if it was possible to design around these issues with non-AKM parts perhaps at the cost of measured performance. If yes then Topping and Co. should have done that. Do low jitter measurements really matter if you can’t use the DAC for your application?

I read somewhere a firmware update was coming. Might not be true but hopefully it is.

 

[Atanasi]

What I want to know if it was possible to design around these issues with non-AKM parts perhaps at the cost of measured performance. If yes then Topping and Co. should have done that. Do low jitter measurements really matter if you can’t use the DAC for your application?

E30 II tries to maximize compatibility. It has proprietary signal processing for S/PDIF. Jitter performance is respectively worse. I don't know why they didn't add the same to other products.

 

[gvl]

I read somewhere a firmware update was coming. Might not be true but hopefully it is.

I suspect this will tweak ESS internal processing, I guess we’ll see but I have a hunch that the issue is with the spdif receiver circuit that’s hardwired and no f/w update can fix that.

 

[Human Bass]

It's really interesting that in this and other threads, the root problem is completely ignored.
Is it too inconvenient that the TV manufacturers (and also newer players of all kinds) cause the problem because they don't adhere to the SPDIF standard?

I have a Sony DSC-88 here, no, not a camera but a "Digital Signal Checker". The comes from the Sony Professional series and for over 20 years it was the standard for repairing and checking DAT, MD and CD players as well as professional studio equipment on the digital side.
In my circle of friends I had 2 x E30, 1 x Gustard and 2 other DACs that did not work on TVs via the optical connection.
On the DSC-88 all DACs worked without any problems. I connected the DSC-88 to two of the TVs and it couldn't do anything with the signal.
With an AK4118 board that converts SPDIF/Toslink to i2s and from i2s back to SPDIF/Toslink, both the DSC-88 and the DACs on the two TVs worked.

So if someone has a Topping E70 that doesn't work on their TV, they can send it to me for testing on the Sony DSC-88.

The DAC inside my speakers has no problem. Other DACs I used thru the years had no problem also. So it's a problem whose solution is extremely viable.

 

[Roland68]

The DAC inside my speakers has no problem. Other DACs I used thru the years had no problem also. So it's a problem whose solution is extremely viable.

Then everything is actually fine and the solution to the problem is very simple.
The E70 doesn't work as it should for you, just get another DAC from another company. In addition to all the DACs tested at ASR, there are many more on the market.

 

[Tobii_73]

I have exactly the same problem with my dx3 pro+ hooked up to my pc using the topping firmware
If i unstall the firmware the skipping dissapears.
I retried it 3x and same skipping with the firmware and no skipping without the firmware.
Does anyone know what causes this problem?
I just wanted teh software to reduce the input lag with the buffer size (does it have a impact in gaming?)

 

[Human Bass]

I have exactly the same problem with my dx3 pro+ hooked up to my pc using the topping firmware
If i unstall the firmware the skipping dissapears.
I retried it 3x and same skipping with the firmware and no skipping without the firmware.
Does anyone know what causes this problem?
I just wanted teh software to reduce the input lag with the buffer size (does it have a impact in gaming?)

Very probably the lag is extremely minimal. I doubt it is beyond 5ms (what would require 200fps to matter) and some godly reflexes from you.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Well...

I just got an E70 for testing today (question is: will I keep one or not as a reference DAC/tone generator).

It just can't handle PCM 2.0 signal out of my LG OLED C2. Skipping every few seconds. Last time I experienced this was with a Peachtree Nova 300 several years ago. I tested a ton of products with a toslink input since and none has this kind of issue. Not to mention I use my Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 everyday with optical out of my TV (obviously) flawlessly.

That's a shame. I personally won't bother, since this is just a testing/experiment device AFAIC. But, for a regular customer (toslink from TV is somewhat extremely common use case), I just say: avoid. To me, it is another proof that Topping do not even test their products in real life conditions. Better release 9 DACs a year in order to achieve 0.5dB extra SINAD, apparently...

 

[Roland68]

Well...

I just got an E70 for testing today (question is: will I keep one or not as a reference DAC/tone generator).

It just can't handle PCM 2.0 signal out of my LG OLED C2. Skipping every few seconds. Last time I experienced this was with a Peachtree Nova 300 several years ago. I tested a ton of products with a toslink input since and none has this kind of issue. Not to mention I use my Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 everyday with optical out of my TV (obviously) flawlessly.

That's a shame. I personally won't bother, since this is just a testing/experiment device AFAIC. But, for a regular customer (toslink from TV is somewhat extremely common use case), I just say: avoid. To me, it is another proof that Topping do not even test their products in real life conditions. Better release 9 DACs a year in order to achieve 0.5dB extra SINAD, apparently...

It's a good thing that this only affects the Topping E70 and cannot be due to the LG's non-standard optical/SPDIF signal.
No problem with LG optical
More

My Sony DSC-88 could not do anything with the signal on 2 LG TVs either, although the part is very insensitive.
btw, does your LG C2 have the latest firmware installed? From time to time LG also fixes errors.

 

[JustJones]

Is this problem limited to optical or TV's? I have a Sony DVD player connected by coax to the E70 and have no problem.

 

[VintageFlanker]

btw, does your LG C2 have the latest firmware installed?

Indeed.

It's a good thing that this only affects the Topping E70 and cannot be due to the LG's non-standard optical/SPDIF signal.

Yes, I know... But what else to say when this is the only DAC on hands having this issue, not to mention it is just released and costs 400€? Why (any of) my other DACs managed to deal with LG optical output so far? Even a 159€ Loxjie A30 amp works just fine under the same conditions... I have a friend who uses a 12 years old Denon AVR-1910 through his LG B1 toslink out and has zero issue with it.

Is this problem limited to optical or TV's?

Limited to toslink/TV. My CD transport works fine with Coax.

 

[Human Bass]

Well...

I just got an E70 for testing today (question is: will I keep one or not as a reference DAC/tone generator).

It just can't handle PCM 2.0 signal out of my LG OLED C2. Skipping every few seconds. Last time I experienced this was with a Peachtree Nova 300 several years ago. I tested a ton of products with a toslink input since and none has this kind of issue. Not to mention I use my Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 everyday with optical out of my TV (obviously) flawlessly.

That's a shame. I personally won't bother, since this is just a testing/experiment device AFAIC. But, for a regular customer (toslink from TV is somewhat extremely common use case), I just say: avoid. To me, it is another proof that Topping do not even test their products in real life conditions. Better release 9 DACs a year in order to achieve 0.5dB extra SINAD, apparently...

Welcome to the club, misery loves company.

What bothers me is how dead silent Topping is about this issue. It's downright absurd that cheap and ancient dacs dont have this issue while Topping takes an eternity to patch it.

 

[Vladetz]

Have anyone tested e70 with 1.04 firmware? Btw my e50 works flawlessly with 2018 LG tv (43uk6710)

 

[Human Bass]

Have anyone tested e70 with 1.04 firmware? Btw my e50 works flawlessly with 2018 LG tv (43uk6710)

Is 1.04 already a thing?

 

[Vladetz]

Is 1.04 already a thing?

yes

 

[VintageFlanker]

yes

Thanks! Should be listed on their website. Yet it isn't.

 

[Human Bass]

yes

Thank you. I will test tonight. Guess I'm gonna start on 8 or 9.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Thank you. I will test tonight. Guess I'm gonna start on 8 or 9.

I'm just trying it at this very moment. 8 and 9 aren't enough... 11 seems to work fine after several minutes of music.

 

[Adaboy4z]

The LG tv we bought 9 years ago, still in use in the garage, had problems constantly dropping signal with HDMI. IT had two HMI ports and I was constantly switching as one would just stop working. I tried different cables also. Maybe an LG issue...

 

[Human Bass]

Good news here folks. The options to change jitter sensitivity in the firmware 1.04 really worked. I set to 10 and no skipping to be heard.

Thank you Topping for providing a very practical fix to the end user.