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Multi-channel Listening and Understanding Some Basic Concepts

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I tried it and all I get is stereo. Note that the Roon Audio Setting for the Oppo by network does not even have an option for number of channels.

Thank you for the confirmation, Kal.

In this case, would there be any reason not to connect the NUC running Room Core or JRMC directly to an AVR through HDMI, in order to feed it with 24/192 PCM ?

Are there other alternatives (hardware, software) one might want to consider given the context of a mixed usage (home theater + music) multichannel 7.1 or 7.1.4 speaker setup, that enables the playback of lossless multichannel audio in all available formats and sources (locally stored, internet streaming, FLAC, DSD, BD...)?
 
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I have used the 7.1 format to give me three subwoofer outputs (5.3 output) and I assume you can do the same with as many channels as you have. JRMC is pretty flexible.

If I understand this correctly, JRMC lets you setup the software output to match your preamp's inputs? Does this mean it performs upmixing from a source that has less discrete channels than the output? For instance if you setup a 7.1 output but play a 5.0 source, does it upmix the SL and SR channels from the source to SL, SR, SBL and SBR?

I think I will be upgrading to Atmos in the near future (7.1.4). When playing 5.0 music I would certainly like to try to upmix to all channels, since "native" Atmos content won't be widely available I presume.
 

Kal Rubinson

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In this case, would there be any reason not to connect the NUC running Room Core or JRMC directly to an AVR through HDMI, in order to feed it with 24/192 PCM ?
No reason.
If I understand this correctly, JRMC lets you setup the software output to match your preamp's inputs? Does this mean it performs upmixing from a source that has less discrete channels than the output?
Not necessarily but that is an option. Default is simply to package the available channels to fit the appropriate slots in the output format.
For instance if you setup a 7.1 output but play a 5.0 source, does it upmix the SL and SR channels from the source to SL, SR, SBL and SBR?
Yes or no.
I think I will be upgrading to Atmos in the near future (7.1.4). When playing 5.0 music I would certainly like to try to upmix to all channels, since "native" Atmos content won't be widely available I presume.
Most Atmos-enabled AVRs/prepros have such an option.
 

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In this case, would there be any reason not to connect the NUC running Room Core or JRMC directly to an AVR through HDMI, in order to feed it with 24/192 PCM ?
I am not so sure that it’s processing power will suffice for multichannel network streaming. You will have to try for yourself
 

Kal Rubinson

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I am not so sure that it’s processing power will suffice for multichannel network streaming. You will have to try for yourself
I have never used the/a NUC or a Nucleus but a Nucleus+ will certainly do multichannel network streaming. It may run out of steam if you are doing lots of HD down/upsampling and/or DSP. (See https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-96-roon-dolby-atmos )
What you can accomplish with your NUC will depend on such usage and what power your NUC has. i5? i7? Generation? Speed?
 

Dimifoot

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but a Nucleus+ will certainly do multichannel network streaming.
Yes, that’s the safest option.
I might get one, I want to stop using the MacBook.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Yes, that’s the safest option.
I might get one, I want to stop using the MacBook.
Read my comments on using it for MCH first to see if it is the safest approach for you. It would not be for me.
 

Dimifoot

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Read my comments on using it for MCH first to see if it is the safest approach for you. It would not be for me.
Hmmmm......

This is what I get now from Roon:

4748C8C5-B831-4567-B90B-7760D6E9BF0E.jpeg


I am not using any Roon DSP. Do you think that I might get into trouble with these settings?
 

Kal Rubinson

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I am not using any Roon DSP. Do you think that I might get into trouble with these settings?
I think you are probably OK with this particular configuration. Stick to DSD64, convert to PCM and keep the EQ in the Trinnov.
 
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So I finally set up my multichannel system with my Marantz AV7005 with my Hypex NC122MP amps front left and right with pretty descent wide dispersion speaker with an 8inch woofer and put 4 speakers in behind. But, I added an active crossover for the front and left adding two subs crossing at 140hz and also adding two subs to the Marantz setting the crossover at 60hz. Essentially 4 subs, 4 rear speakers only missing the centre channel.

There is no doubt that to live music there is an improvement in sound but what is missing is the quality of sound in the front sound-stage that I had with my NADC510 DAC. That lack of quality sound-stage is not enough to make me keep this system but I am trying to give it a chance.

Upmixing is pretty descent, though now I am curious if there is a way to replicate the same effect from acoustics rather than upmixing, that would be interesting. I know there is a way to accomplish reverb tail from the rear and using second order reflection as well to add envelopment but how it would compare to upmixing is what I would like to know.

Anyway, I will use Audyssey soon to see if that helps. Otherwise its a good experience and it needed to attempted. I also tried with inferior speakers with a centre channel and the centre is important its adds envelopment from the front which adds to the overall sense of immersion but with nferior speakers it was average compared to a stereo set up with better DAC.

Can the NADC510 that measures below average make that much of an impact whe n using the same power amp and speakers. Perhaps i need to listen a little more to get used to the sound and see if there really is a difference.
 
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I have never used the/a NUC or a Nucleus but a Nucleus+ will certainly do multichannel network streaming. It may run out of steam if you are doing lots of HD down/upsampling and/or DSP. (See https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-96-roon-dolby-atmos )
What you can accomplish with your NUC will depend on such usage and what power your NUC has. i5? i7? Generation? Speed?

Funny, I came back here after finding and reading your article on my own :D

It seems indeed that a latest generation i7 NUC is preferable but might still be CPU limited at some point.

Back to Roon DSP: can you confirm that it is possible to EQ individual speaker channels just as an AVR does?

I have recently discovered that all mainstream AVRs will downsample to 48 kHz the moment you activate Room EQ. Does anyone know what other sound processing would do the same? Bass management? Upmixing?
 
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So I finally set up my multichannel system with my Marantz AV7005 with my Hypex NC122MP amps front left and right with pretty descent wide dispersion speaker with an 8inch woofer and put 4 speakers in behind. But, I added an active crossover for the front and left adding two subs crossing at 140hz and also adding two subs to the Marantz setting the crossover at 60hz. Essentially 4 subs, 4 rear speakers only missing the centre channel.

There is no doubt that to live music there is an improvement in sound but what is missing is the quality of sound in the front sound-stage that I had with my NADC510 DAC. That lack of quality sound-stage is not enough to make me keep this system but I am trying to give it a chance.

Upmixing is pretty descent, though now I am curious if there is a way to replicate the same effect from acoustics rather than upmixing, that would be interesting. I know there is a way to accomplish reverb tail from the rear and using second order reflection as well to add envelopment but how it would compare to upmixing is what I would like to know.

Anyway, I will use Audyssey soon to see if that helps. Otherwise its a good experience and it needed to attempted. I also tried with inferior speakers with a centre channel and the centre is important its adds envelopment from the front which adds to the overall sense of immersion but with nferior speakers it was average compared to a stereo set up with better DAC.

Can the NADC510 that measures below average make that much of an impact whe n using the same power amp and speakers. Perhaps i need to listen a little more to get used to the sound and see if there really is a difference.

If I am not mistaken, just like in a movie theatre, the idea is no make the room disappear acoustically so as to be able to accurately recreate the recorded/mixed ambience through the multi-channel sound system.

Any room reflections that remain will add to ambience trying to be reproduced.

In a traditional 2 channel stereo reproduction, the system cannot recreate that atmosphere, which is the reason why it is usually advised to keep some room liveliness. This room signature then helps with envelopment but will be a fixed characteristic of whatever you listen to.

I am by no means an expert on this subject so I would advise you to not trust my word on this. Otherwise good luck with your project ;)
 
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I was thinking about the Atmos upgrade path for my 7.1 legacy setup, but after reading about Auro3D I believe the latter is a much better setup for music reproduction.

The movie and music industries seem to start picking up on it and mainstream AVRs are now compatible. There is some content available on Blu-Ray, too. Kal, what are your thoughts on this format?

 

Kal Rubinson

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The movie and music industries seem to start picking up on it and mainstream AVRs are now compatible. There is some content available on Blu-Ray, too. Kal, what are your thoughts on this format?
Frankly, I support any/all formats since I choose on the basis of program content. Immersive audio is less important to me because I am music-oriented but I like Auro2D upmixing for casual listening.
 
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Actually my question was specifically about Auro 3D music (Blu-ray audio) ;)

The video I linked is mostly about this.

The guest and host discuss over a classical performance recorded live and mixed with very little compression.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Actually my question was specifically about Auro 3D music (Blu-ray audio) ;)
I have been quite impressed with Auro-3D music when I tried it a while back. Unfortunately, for me, there is not (yet) sufficient repertoire to bother with it now.
The video I linked is mostly about this.
I don't play videos, as a general rule.
 

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Kal Rubinson

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Indeed. Probably not worth the investment over a 5.1 setup for music alone, but in a mixed-usage situation it might be worth considering the Auro 3D speaker setup vs Atmos: playing an Atmos soundtrack on an Auro 3D setup still works (not optimal, but OK) but the opposite doesn't really work at all as the vertical stereo image will be lost.

Then it's always the same problem: no one will get into it before there is enough content, but if no one buys the little content available the industry will see no demand ...

Which is why I guess these Blu-Rays offer different soundtrack options: 2.0 , 5.1, Atmos, Auro 3D.
 
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Kal Rubinson

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Indeed. Probably not worth the investment over a 5.1 setup for music alone, but in a mixed-usage situation it might be worth considering the Auro 3D speaker setup vs Atmos: playing an Atmos soundtrack on an Auro 3D setup still works (not optimal, but OK) but the opposite doesn't really work at all as the vertical stereo image will be lost.

Then it's always the same problem: no one will get into it before there is enough content, but if no one buys the little content available the industry will see no demand ...

Which is why I guess these Blu-Rays offer different soundtrack options: 2.0 , 5.1, Atmos, Auro 3D.
Yes and that is why I took down my lash-up ATMOS setup and stayed with 5.1. When the compatibility wrinkles are all worked out, I may re-investigate (if I live that long).
 
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