Multi-channel Listening and Understanding Some Basic Concepts

[flyingflatfour]

Does this happen even if you convert DSD to PCM with Roon?

 

[flyingflatfour]

There is a one-to-one correlation of the two (at least to begin with).

How does one setup bass management to redirect bass frequencies to a subwoofer with a 5.0 or 2.0 signal? Confused

 

[Dimifoot]

Does this happen even if you convert DSD to PCM with Roon?

Yes. Actually I have only tried it like that.

How does one setup bass management to redirect bass frequencies to a subwoofer with a 5.0 or 2.0 signal? Confused

Using the Oppo?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

MacBook running Roon -Ethernet-Oppo203 as Roon Ready device-connected by HDMI-to Trinnov
When streaming multichannel I get 2 channels out from the Oppo.
If Trinnov is used as a Roon Ready device, then there is no problem with multichannel

Connect Roon to the Oppo with HDMI.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

How does one setup bass management to redirect bass frequencies to a subwoofer with a 5.0 or 2.0 signal? Confused

EZ. Set Roon to 5.1 output and add procedural filters to (1) route the main channels to sum in the LFE channel, (2) add a LP filter to the LFE channel and (3) addHP filters on the main channels.

 

[Dimifoot]

Connect Roon to the Oppo with HDMI.

I use the Trinnov so I am not fussed.

The issue with most users is that they have Roon running on a server far away in the house from the Oppo, maybe in a basement, and can’t connect with HDMI. Ethernet is their only choice.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

Does this happen even if you convert DSD to PCM with Roon?

I am afraid that the Oppo won’t stream multichannel in Roon.

I use Asio4All In Win10 and connect my Oppo103 to Roon with HDMI. The Oppo crashes if I disconnect the Hdmi coming from Roon while streaming, otherwise all is good. Mch works, you may have to re-assign the channel mapping in Roon‘s procedural EQ.

 

[Dimifoot]

and connect my Oppo103 to Roon with HDMI

Does it work with Ethernet?

 

[JoachimStrobel]

No, the Oppo 103 is not recognized as Roon endpoint. For Ethernet I use a Rasp4 with Volumio (Mch too).

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I use the Trinnov so I am not fussed. [/QUOTE}
I am not surprised

The issue with most users is that they have Roon running on a server far away in the house from the Oppo, maybe in a basement, and can’t connect with HDMI. Ethernet is their only choice.

Understood although unfortunate. I keep my NAS drives remote to eliminate their noise from the listening room but I keep my streamers close.

 

[flyingflatfour]

EZ. Set Roon to 5.1 output and add procedural filters to (1) route the main channels to sum in the LFE channel, (2) add a LP filter to the LFE channel and (3) addHP filters on the main channels.

Does this work also with other speaker setups such as 7.1 , 7.1.4 etc ?

 

[flyingflatfour]

I use the Trinnov so I am not fussed.

The issue with most users is that they have Roon running on a server far away in the house from the Oppo, maybe in a basement, and can’t connect with HDMI. Ethernet is their only choice.

That is what I was planning to do, have a NUC run Roon core and connect to the network with ethernet, then stream to the Oppo 203 also connected to the network, itself connected to the AVR with HDMI... I am unsure now if I will have to connect the NUC directly to the AVR or to the Oppo with HDMI ?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Does this work also with other speaker setups such as 7.1 , 7.1.4 etc ?

I have used the 7.1 format to give me three subwoofer outputs (5.3 output) and I assume you can do the same with as many channels as you have. JRMC is pretty flexible.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Whoa! (Did I get your attention?) There is a built in bass management option in JRMC exactly for the purpose of adding the LFE/sub channel when using an x.0 input format with an n.1 output format. It is right on the Tools > Options > Audio > DSP page.

 

[Dimifoot]

That is what I was planning to do, have a NUC run Roon core and connect to the network with ethernet, then stream to the Oppo 203 also connected to the network, itself connected to the AVR with HDMI... I am unsure now if I will have to connect the NUC directly to the AVR or to the Oppo with HDMI ?

@Kal Rubinson ?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

@Kal Rubinson ?

??? I have not tried to connect Roon to the Oppo by network. If I have time this weekend, I'll give it a shot. I can do it with JRMC but that is DLNA while Roon uses its own protocols.

 

[Newman]

2. David Griesinger mentions in his conclusion "A five channel system is nearly always better than two channel, if the side speakers are independent" What does he mean by independent?

Initially, the early 5.1 systems were 4.1 systems were the side/rear channels were fed with a band passed filtered monaural signal. The amp then added some stereophonic noise, a rear dipole created another illusion. I guess that is what David refers to as the need for the side channels to be independent - which they are today.

Just coming back to this for a moment, the 2-channel upmixing, that is core to this thread, is NOT 'independent', in the way Griesinger insists is necessary. So... is he right, or is he wrong?

 

[Sancus]

Just coming back to this for a moment, the 2-channel upmixing, that is core to this thread, is NOT 'independent', in the way Griesinger insists is necessary. So... is he right, or is he wrong?

As far as I can tell, that quote is from a slide deck from a presentation, so it's not really complete information. The presentation spends some time discussing upmixing and Lexicon Logic 7 in particular so it doesn't seem likely that he meant the surround channels need completely independent recordings to be worth having.

To me a much better quote is: "Recent research into the acoustics of small rooms shows a standard stereo pair of speakers is NOT the optimum method of coupling two recorded channels to a room. " which is pretty much a direct statement that, considering the right recordings and the right upmixing strategy, upmixing is always an improvement.

However there is a bunch of other stuff in this slide deck, like "Recordings must include decorrelated reverberation.", and none of it is particularly well explained since presumably that's what he would have done during the presentation.

It's an interesting summary of a bunch of different things but it's also 20 years old and only a small part of what would have been said in that presentation so I don't think you can really draw any firm conclusions from it. Interesting, but not sufficient, information.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

I picked up my first DVD player in 1998. DVD was the first medium able to deliver discrete 5.1 sound. It seems Griesinger mainly speaks about a world where upmixing is a must as discrete Mch was not available. And people had all kind of Dolby active or passive or circle surround or other stuff at home. Quad had failed 20 years earlier, and Dolby revived Mch with a complete different concept optimized for movies and being hugely successful for a change. And then Music jumped on that bandwagon...
Interesting and fascinating read. I guess upmixing is useful and great, but to argue that it will make a 2ch recording „better“ is as true as saying a cheese gratin improves a lobster menu.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

??? I have not tried to connect Roon to the Oppo by network. If I have time this weekend, I'll give it a shot. I can do it with JRMC but that is DLNA while Roon uses its own protocols.

I tried it and all I get is stereo. Note that the Roon Audio Setting for the Oppo by network does not even have an option for number of channels.