Most transparent 8-mic-in audio interface+recorder?

[lsanbourne]

Hello,

I'm an internationally touring musician who frequently records my own chamber concerts with MixPre II and Schoeps. I don't love MixPre's mic preamps and really don't like its headphone amp, so I'm looking for a better solution: 8 of the most transparent mic preamps, ability to record 2 ch 96kHz standalone+battery (or up to 6-8ch 96kHz into a DAW), portable. Ideally I will find a modular solution since I often record with only 2 or 4 channels - though sometimes I do need 6-8.

1. I've found THD+N to be highly correlated with how good the interfaces sound. Is this the best spec metric?
2. From a professional friend who uses Merging/RME, I heard good things about F8n Pro, despite the price, but can't find measurements. Does anyone have them? I had F8 and hated the mic preamps.
3. Does anyone have recommendations for my needs? I own 12Mic and Babyface Pro and love the sound, but with just 1 ADAT in, I can't use all of 12Mic's inputs. I considered UCX II + QuadMic (via UCX II's analog inputs) but that might be fiddly.

Since I perform, I need to reserve mental capacity for my own performance (= I prefer as few cable connections as possible). And we often have way too little setup time, so I'd prefer to spend it positioning mics rather than connecting a bunch of cables. But I could be convinced otherwise and realize I'm asking for some crazy tradeoffs.

Thank you for your help!!
Larry

 

[welwynnick]

Not quite sure whether you need something portable or transportable, so need to clear that up.

You probably have good advice to look at Merging and RME - you can hardly go wrong there.

Two of the key buying decisions are about the digital interface you want to use, and there are several of them, and whether you use a Mac or a PC - some makes don't cater for both, so watch out for that.

It's interesting that you found THD+N to be highly correlated with how good the interfaces sound. That's a firm ASR favourite, though the industry commonly uses DNR, which is typically around 10dB better.

I never looked very closely at micpres, but I did compare high quality ADA interfaces in the context of off-board multi channel DA conversion, so I don't think this summary will serve your purposes very well, but it shows who the good manufacturers are. Anything with 110 SINAD / 120 DNR is good (SINAD is signal to noise and distortion - same as THD+N but without the minus sign).

Manufacturer	Model	Version	AES	AoIP	AoIP	AoIP	Other	Chan	SINAD	DR dB	Price £
Universal	Apollo	X16					TB	16	123	127	3,035
Topping	DM7						USB	8	121	130	599
Apogee	Symphony	Mk II	AES/EBU			Dante		16	119	126	8,000
Okto	Research	dac8	AES/EBU				USB	8	119	125	1,180
Apogee	Symphony	Mk I	AES/EBU				TB	16	117	129	(1,000)
Merging	Horus		AES/EBU	AES67	Ravenna			32	116	125	9,358
Merging	Hapi	MkII		AES67	Ravenna			16	116	125	6,730
Benchmark	DAC	3B	AES/EBU				USB	2	116	123	1,845
Antelope	Galaxy	32				Dante	HDX,TB	32	115	128	3,675
ExaSound	S88	MARK					USB	8	113	123	6,080
PrismSound	ADA-128		AES/EBU			Dante	HDX	16	111	125	17,274
Avid	I/O	HD	AES/EBU				ADAT	8	110	125	(800)
MOTU	16A					AVB	TB	16	110	123	1,321
Avid	MTRX	II	AES/EBU			Dante	MADI,TB	16	110	118	13,000
Avid	MTRX	Studio				Dante	ADAT	16	110	118	4,700
DirectOut	Prodigy	MC	AES/EBU	AES67	Ravenna	AVB	MADI	32	109	120	10,000
DirectOut	Andiamo	Dante		AES67	Ravenna		MADI	32	109	120	5,712
Lynx	Aurora	16 (n)	AES/EBU			Dante	USB,TB	16	108	120	4,400
RME	M-32	Pro IID				Dante		32	107	119	3,796
RME	M-32	Pro II				AVB		32	107	119	3,290
Apogee	DA-16X		AES/EBU				ADAT	16	107	118	(800)
Lynx	Aurora	16	AES/EBU			Dante	USB,TB	16	107	117	(1000)
PrismSound	Atlas						ADAT	8	106	115	4,618
Digidesign	I/O	192	AES/EBU					8	105	120	(300)
Focusrite	RedNet	A16R II		AES67		Dante		16	105	119	3,380
Lucid	88192		AES/EBU					8	105	115	(650)
Focusrite	Red	16Line		AES67		Dante	TB	16	104	121	2,920
Apogee	Rosetta	800	AES/EBU				ADAT	8	103	114	(500)
PrismSound	ADA	8XR	AES/EBU				HDX	8	102	108	7,192

These are all manufacturer's claimed figures. I compared as many independent measurements as I could find with manufacturer's claims, and broadly found very good correlation.

The best makes are clearly Universal Audio, PrismSound, Apogee, Merging, RME, Antelope, Avid and Lynx. If MOTU or FocusRite offer converters that fit your bill, I think they would give very good value for money, and are very popular these days.

I would definitely avoid Crestron, Behringer, Tascam, Ferrofish and Dangerous Music - I cut them off the bottom of the chart. I think the remainder are all good.

Sound on Sound published a great summary of converter performance somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

 

[welwynnick]

A bit of a goldmine from Hugh Robjohn at Sound on Sound here. These are all DNR measurements by the way.

Forum

www.soundonsound.com

So here, in descending order, are the AES17 (A-wtd) measurements for the A-D converters/interfaces I've measured to date. The currently available 'top-ten' are highlighted in bold. I've given all the entries hot links to their corresponding SOS reviews where available.

124.0 RME ADI-2 Pro Interface (April 2017)
123.0 Lavry AD11 Converter (June 2012)
122.0 Universal Audio 2192 Master Interface (August 20120)
121.3 Lynx Hilo Interface (July 2012)
121.3 Current Focusrite ISA card Converter (~2016)
121.0 Merging HAPI (March 2015)
120.5 Grace Design M108 Mic Amp (January 2017)
120.4 RME 12Mic (March 2021)
120.0 Apogee Symphony Interface (Sept 2011)
119.5 Original Focusrite ISA multichannel A-D card (~2003)
119.4 Cranborne 500R8 500-series Rack Interface(Sept 2019)
119.3 Eventide H9000 Effects Processor(June 2019)
119.1 RME UFX III
119.0 RME AIO-Pro (July 2021)
118.0 Focusrite Clarett+ 8Pre Interface (November 2021)
118.0 [Not tested, but original Focusrite Clarett USB believed to reside here!]
118.0 Prism Lyra 2 interface (Sept 2015)
118.0 Prism Titan Interface (Sept 2014)
118.0 Crookwood M1 (Dec 2012)
117.0 Focusrite RedNet Interface (March 2013)
117.0 UAD Apollo Interface (original model) (June 2012)
116.9 Grimm UC1 (June 2002)
116.8 RME AIO card (original) (March 2009)
116.5 Audient ASP 880 Mic Pre (Aug 2014)
116.4 RND MBC Converter (with Xfmr) (Aug 2021)
116.0 Antelope Audio Orion Interface (June 2013)
115.0 RND RMP-D8 Mic Preamp (Sept 2020)
115.0 Burl B2 Bomber Converter (Nov 2010)
114.3 Tascam Series 8p Dyna Mic Preamp (Nov 2019)
114.0 RME Digiface AES (June 2023)
113.7 Drawmer A2D2 Converter (Dec 2010)
113.0 Millennia Media AD596 500-series converter
112.2 Ferrofish Pulse 16DX Converter (Sept 2019)
112.0 SPL Marc One Monitor Controller (A_D_A) (Sept 2021)
112.0 Audient ASP800 Mic Preamp (Nov 2015)
112.0 SSL Alpha MX Converter (Feb 2013)
111.0 RND MBC (no Xfmr) (Aug 2021)
109.0 Ferrofish A16 Ultra mkii Converter (Oct 2012)
109.0 Yellotec PUC2 Interface (July 2014)
105.0 Ferrofish A32 Converter (March 2017)
103.0 Behringer ADA8200 (Sept 2013)

 

[DVDdoug]

I can't make a recommendation.

1. I've found THD+N to be highly correlated with how good the interfaces sound. Is this the best spec metric?

Usually it's the noise component. Distortion won't be audible unless you "try" to go over 0dB and clip. Frequency response us usually flat (and microphones are far from flat anyway).

There are different ways of measuring noise so you can't really compare unless you can find independent measurements (all from the same lab). The head amp in condenser mics also generates some noise, but usually the preamp noise is worse. I assume you are using condensers. Dynamic mics don't have any internal active electronics to generate noise but they have lower output, making preamp noise more of an issue, so condensers are usually the better option. And of course, directional (cardioid) mics reduce room noise from other directions.

Acoustic instruments are tough because they are dynamic and during the quiet parts you get a weak signal-to-noise ratio. In a concert environment you've also got more acoustic noise than a soundproof studio. Usually acoustic noise will dominate but it varies and electrical noise may sometimes be audible, especially at high gain. Getting the mics close to the instruments will (of course) give a stronger signal, improving BOTH the acoustic and electrical signal-to-noise ratio.

 

[lsanbourne]

Thank you all for these super helpful replies, which I'm taking time to digest. Unfortunately of the many interfaces above, most can't record direct to USB like MixPre. But I read @Rja4000's review of MixPre-3 II and felt seen…

I'm member of a group for classical music recording and I see quite a few users of those devices there. And some are using it with DPA 4006 and other Schoeps high end microphones. Those people deserve better.

Other options I considered:

1. I used 12Mic last week and absolutely love the quality. But I was feeding it into Babyface Pro via ADAT and could only use 4 inputs, plus it was clunky to configure routing on two separate devices. Same issue if I had UCX II. MADIface would help if only it had a headphone jack to listen back from DAW.
2. I saw @Rja4000's amazing review of RME UFX III and would love to get that, but 2-mic-in is a common use case for me and I can't justify lugging a 1U box just for 2 channels. L
3. Seems like the major classical music recordings are often made with Merging devices, but these are much heavier and don't record direct to USB.

I guess what I really want is a super-high-quality half-rack 2-mic-in audio interface that records direct to USB and accepts MADI or AoIP...does that exist?

 

[EERecordist]

This is discussed on the Classical Music Location Recording group on Facebook often.

Recently people also discussed recording redundancy. Digital transport over Ethernet to the recorder is also discussed (MADI, Dante, etc.) Interfaces with microphone pre - DAD, RME, Millennia, and Merging are popular for large channel counts, and each company also has small channel count units. They would be separate from the (redundant) recorder(s). Not clear where the headphones come in to your use case.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Thank you all for these super helpful replies, which I'm taking time to digest. Unfortunately of the many interfaces above, most can't record direct to USB like MixPre. But I read @Rja4000's review of MixPre-3 II and felt seen…



Other options I considered:

1. I used 12Mic last week and absolutely love the quality. But I was feeding it into Babyface Pro via ADAT and could only use 4 inputs, plus it was clunky to configure routing on two separate devices. Same issue if I had UCX II. MADIface would help if only it had a headphone jack to listen back from DAW.
2. I saw @Rja4000's amazing review of RME UFX III and would love to get that, but 2-mic-in is a common use case for me and I can't justify lugging a 1U box just for 2 channels. L
3. Seems like the major classical music recordings are often made with Merging devices, but these are much heavier and don't record direct to USB.

I guess what I really want is a super-high-quality half-rack 2-mic-in audio interface that records direct to USB and accepts MADI or AoIP...does that exist?

What exactly do you mean when you say "that records direct to USB"?

 

[lsanbourne]

What exactly do you mean when you say "that records direct to USB"?

I mean you can plug in a USB drive and the recorder will record to that, either for redundancy or primary (like a field recorder, no computer/DAW) - like RME UCX II and UFX III.

 

[G|force]

Check out the discontinued Tascam HS-8
It's 2 spaces tall, 19" rack mount and it can record 8 channels plus a stereo mix with built in mixer, stand-alone, with analog and AES I/O to dual CF cards. No mic pres though.
I have one and it works great.

 

[lsanbourne]

Check out the discontinued Tascam HS-8
It's 2 spaces tall, 19" rack mount and it can record 8 channels plus a stereo mix with built in mixer, stand-alone, with analog and AES I/O to dual CF cards. No mic pres though.
I have one and it works great.

2U without any mic preamps is unfortunately a nonstarter - I would just get 12Mic and UFX III in that case. Since I have to live out of one little carryon suitcase for months at a time, I'm looking for a 0.5U with 2 mic preamps and standalone recording, and a 1U with 6+ mic preamps.

 

[lsanbourne]

This is discussed on the Classical Music Location Recording group on Facebook often.

Recently people also discussed recording redundancy. Digital transport over Ethernet to the recorder is also discussed (MADI, Dante, etc.) Interfaces with microphone pre - DAD, RME, Millennia, and Merging are popular for large channel counts, and each company also has small channel count units. They would be separate from the (redundant) recorder(s). Not clear where the headphones come in to your use case.

Thanks, I will try to search that and see what I can find. Wish someone would make a wiki with a summary of all the wisdom that lives in these forums!

Ideally, then, I'd find a recorder that has 2 mic preamps in 0.5-rack size, and MADI - and then I could bring 12Mic for more complex applications.

I use headphones to listen to takes and judge mic placement. In practice often at least 2 people want to listen to the takes with me, often with their own low-impedance headphones (since it's hard enough to travel with one pair of headphones, let alone 2).

 

[Blumlein 88]

I mean you can plug in a USB drive and the recorder will record to that, either for redundancy or primary (like a field recorder, no computer/DAW) - like RME UCX II and UFX III.

That is what I thought and just wanted to make sure it was what you mean. You are limiting your choices greatly with that requirement. I understand the desire for it in the field.

Sound Devices sort of dominates that market with Zoom being the main competitor. The Zoom FN6 was measured here and did rather poorly.

Zoom F6 Portable Field Recorder Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Zoom F6 battery operated, multi-channel portable balanced field recorder. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $650 from Amazon including Prime shipping. I must say, the F6 is one sturdy feeling and looking recorder despite its small...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[EERecordist]

This came across my RME feed. It has more ports than you need. It was a custom integration by Rob Badenoch who sure could be easily found, or contact RME.

One of the comments also suggests joeco.co.uk recorder preamps. With a digital microphone preamp, your laptop is the recorder, and you are probably bringing a laptop. IEM-earbuds travel more easily than over the ear headphones.

(Custom 24 channel mic splitter and Dante A-D with recording and backup power)

7.2 万次播放 · 783 个心情 | Awesome RME-powered stagerack with splitter by Rob Badenoch. Don't miss parts 2 and 3 with the amazing control room rack and the full system in action.... | By RME Audio USA | Facebook

Awesome RME-powered stagerack with splitter by Rob Badenoch. Don't miss parts 2 and 3 with the amazing control room rack and the full system in action....

www.facebook.com

 

[lsanbourne]

Incredible - all the 12Mics!

My intention is to have a two-mic-input setup that doesn't require a laptop and is much smaller than this, and an 8-channel setup that does have a laptop.

Really good point over IEMs - are there IEMs that are actually good enough for monitoring recordings, assessing mic placement, etc.?