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Mjolnir Audio Pure Bipolar - Opinion on internal pictures

Noendgamehere

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I'm a good person to reply to this, because I'm a fan of Birgir as a person and as a headphone repairer and am predisposed to like his amplifiers (although I've never had or even seen one, so my personal experience ends there).

It seems clear to me that this thread has plenty of substance. Maybe it could be more polite.
That is fair to say. I said no substance because no one responding had actually heard the amp or seen measurements. It was based on a picture of the internals. Perhaps I was a bit harsh. I’ve spent a fair bit of time speaking with Birgir about this amp and why he built it the way he did. Admittedly, most went right over my head. But, I learned that he went for the most efficient possible design and lay out and for the amp to be able to handle the crazy swings of dynamic headphones. Like the HD800 which isn’t super hard to power, but hard to power correctly due to its wild swings throughout the FR. So, he designed the amp to provide power at the crucial points along the way to properly bring out a headphones full potential. Being that I am no engineer, I hope I am adequately explaining what he described to me.
 

amirm

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I said no substance because no one responding had actually heard the amp or seen measurements
The request in OP was to look at pictures and comment which we did. It was not what you surmise. I am happy to measure one to see where it stands.
 

Noendgamehere

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I sent you the link to Bob’s measurements. I honestly don’t care how it measures. Makes absolutely no difference to me. I listen and determine whether or not it fits my preferences and has synergy with my other components. If it doesn’t I move on. I let my ears guide me. I have purchased products that measured well and haven’t liked them, I purchased products that have measured poorly and haven’t liked them. The other side as well. My point wasn’t about measurements. My point was the negativity. As the one gentleman said, it could’ve been more polite. I listen to music, I don’t measure it.
 

Noendgamehere

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The request in OP was to look at pictures and comment which we did. It was not what you surmise. I am happy to measure one to see where it stands.
Yes, and I believe your comment was that $100 amps are built better. I read the thread. I would be happy to listen to the amp and tell you how it sounds.
 
D

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I want to commend @Noendgamehere for having the courage to challenge the ASR orthodoxy. It's pointless to take such a hard-line stance against the utility of subjective evaluation when the sole end goal of hi-fi design is to deliver a pleasing subjective experience to the listener. The only thing that matters is how it sounds. If ASR wants to do something serious about fraud and misinformation, I suggest you all turn your attention to politics.

To answer the original question, the Mjolnir amplifier seems to be competently built. The hand soldering is a little sloppy by my OCD standards, but looks to be perfectly adequate. I looked up the referenced Kevin Gilmore circuits and they appear to be well thought-out. There seems to be a little controversy WRT the relationship between Gilmore and Mjolnir, but I can't really comment on that.

Whether or not it's worth the asking price is tough to answer. I would be hard-pressed to build that amp and make a profit selling it commercially for much less than two grand. Measurements would probably reveal poorer performance than the latest toys from Guandgong Province, but Mjolnir doesn't have the benefit of the economies of scale, cheap labor, and government subsidies (direct or indirect) enjoyed by Chinese manufacturers. The amplifier probably performs well enough to be "audibly transparent," whatever that means. Or perhaps it adds a little bit of "flavor" that some listeners might prefer. Personally, I think it's funny when people's heads explode at the idea of deliberately designing circuits to add some coloration to enhance the sound. It doesn't hurt anyone as long as no one lies about what they're doing.

If the threshold of audibility is 'X' and all competently-designed amplifiers meet or exceed that standard, then it's pointless and self-deceptive to rank these amplifiers on a scale of fitness for their intended purpose, which is to play music pleasingly. Nonetheless, people routinely go nuts over the latest record-breaking performance results, even lament having purchased last month's champion, all the while acknowledging that "it all sounds the same." IMHO, this is a glaring logical contradiction in the philosophy of this site.

From time to time, I see people making similar points here. Some of the arguments are pretty astute, IMHO, and I get a laugh out of the logical contortions that are offered in reply. People should be honest that, as @JohnYang1997 himself said, the problem of amplifier design was solved a long time ago. The push for ever-lower noise and distortion is an interesting exercise in design ingenuity, but has no utility to the end user. It distracts from more important and useful things, like customer service, build quality, reliability, and, you know, supporting domestic manufacturers who have a hard enough time competing on an unfair playing field.

This site would be much, much better if it incorporated some kind of controlled listening evaluation, and offered actual in-depth analysis of circuit design instead of just posting Audio Precision plots and pictures of broken panther figurines. But it's not my site, and who am I to complain? I design and build my own amplifiers, and get several orders of magnitude more useful guidance from diyaudio.com.

I say, good for Mjolnir for building a unique, hand-crafted product that's different and interesting. Nobody needs hi-fi. If you have some expendable income and find the product appealing and satisfying, then go ahead and buy it. Otherwise, spend $150, be a lemming, and buy something from Topping. Or just listen with the "free" dongle that came with your iPhone.

I admire John Yang's work. Two years ago, he was a college student. I bought an A30 Pro recently, and honestly can't say I prefer it to my own DIY HPA, which has never been tested with an audio analyzer.
 

Noendgamehere

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I want to commend @Noendgamehere for having the courage to challenge the ASR orthodoxy. It's pointless to take such a hard-line stance against the utility of subjective evaluation when the sole end goal of hi-fi design is to deliver a pleasing subjective experience to the listener. The only thing that matters is how it sounds. If ASR wants to do something serious about fraud and misinformation, I suggest you all turn your attention to politics.

To answer the original question, the Mjolnir amplifier seems to be competently built. The hand soldering is a little sloppy by my OCD standards, but looks to be perfectly adequate. I looked up the referenced Kevin Gilmore circuits and they appear to be well thought-out. There seems to be a little controversy WRT the relationship between Gilmore and Mjolnir, but I can't really comment on that.

Whether or not it's worth the asking price is tough to answer. I would be hard-pressed to build that amp and make a profit selling it commercially for much less than two grand. Measurements would probably reveal poorer performance than the latest toys from Guandgong Province, but Mjolnir doesn't have the benefit of the economies of scale, cheap labor, and government subsidies (direct or indirect) enjoyed by Chinese manufacturers. The amplifier probably performs well enough to be "audibly transparent," whatever that means. Or perhaps it adds a little bit of "flavor" that some listeners might prefer. Personally, I think it's funny when people's heads explode at the idea of deliberately designing circuits to add some coloration to enhance the sound. It doesn't hurt anyone as long as no one lies about what they're doing.

If the threshold of audibility is 'X' and all competently-designed amplifiers meet or exceed that standard, then it's pointless and self-deceptive to rank these amplifiers on a scale of fitness for their intended purpose, which is to play music pleasingly. Nonetheless, people routinely go nuts over the latest record-breaking performance results, even lament having purchased last month's champion, all the while acknowledging that "it all sounds the same." IMHO, this is a glaring logical contradiction in the philosophy of this site.

From time to time, I see people making similar points here. Some of the arguments are pretty astute, IMHO, and I get a laugh out of the logical contortions that are offered in reply. People should be honest that, as @JohnYang1997 himself said, the problem of amplifier design was solved a long time ago. The push for ever-lower noise and distortion is an interesting exercise in design ingenuity, but has no utility to the end user. It distracts from more important and useful things, like customer service, build quality, reliability, and, you know, supporting domestic manufacturers who have a hard enough time competing on an unfair playing field.

This site would be much, much better if it incorporated some kind of controlled listening evaluation, and offered actual in-depth analysis of circuit design instead of just posting Audio Precision plots and pictures of broken panther figurines. But it's not my site, and who am I to complain? I design and build my own amplifiers, and get several orders of magnitude more useful guidance from diyaudio.com.

I say, good for Mjolnir for building a unique, hand-crafted product that's different and interesting. Nobody needs hi-fi. If you have some expendable income and find the product appealing and satisfying, then go ahead and buy it. Otherwise, spend $150, be a lemming, and buy something from Topping. Or just listen with the "free" dongle that came with your iPhone.

I admire John Yang's work. Two years ago, he was a college student. I bought an A30 Pro recently, and honestly can't say I prefer it to my own DIY HPA, which has never been tested with an audio analyzer.
Thank you. This was written and said much better than I ever could. In my opinion, this hobby is about music and how the complementing equipment helps or hinders. It is not about anything else other than getting as close to my music as possible. I am a chef and have spent 25 yrs engaged in the pursuit of balancing flavor with texture and color. I was taught to use my senses to cook with feel and to listen, taste and watch my creations to understand the dishes success. My customers eat it because they like the way it tastes and looks; coupled with how well we anticipate their needs to provide exemplary customer service. Music and audio are no different to me.

I have no issues with ASR. It takes a lot to put something you create out into the world, and in doing so people have the right to criticize and or determine it’s validity. I just believe the whole point is for a piece of gear to take us closer to our music. If we love the way it sounds, that should be the primary goal. It is successful if people love what it does. Subjectivity will reign supreme.

I apologize again for picking a fight. And thank you for listening and especially to @op48no1 for supporting me.
 
D

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An acquaintance recommended to me a short book of philosophy by C. S. Lewis titled "The Abolition of Man." The book is a compilation of three lectures Lewis gave on the nature of morality and the futility of trying to assign value without reference to the inherent, objective reality of things.

http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/cosmos/philo/AbolitionofMan.pdf

I think it's impossible to take seriously any notion of hi-fi "goodness" without doing some hard philosophical work. Adherents of either the objectivist or the subjectivist camps might find support on this book. An objectivist might say the measured performance of an amplifier is the core Reality and that subjectivity leaves us out on a limb with a saw in hand. But I think this reading would be ass-backwards.

The objective reality here is not the technical performance of the amplifier, but rather, as Lewis observes at the start, that the object of perception is "sublime." Our emotional reaction to the experience is not some subjective whimsy to be denied and suppressed. It is our reasoned reaction to the inherent value of the thing. So it's pointless to claim that in describing our emotions we are only making statements about ourselves and not the thing itself.

Lewis goes on to argue how the Conquest of Nature through SCIENCE! will lead to a dystopian future where increasingly fewer members of preceding generations wield technology to strip their descendants of their power and humanity. The endpoint of the Conquest of Nature is the Abolition of Man and, ultimately, extinction. IMHO, he was incredibly prescient, though obviously about more important things than the Amp of the Month.

I would argue, if we take Lewis to heart, that the fixation on objective measurements is inherently hollow because it seeks to justify itself without explaining why high performance, as measured with test instruments, is inherently good. I'm aware of the arguments for audio objectivity, but they ultimately fall flat because the object here is the music, not the equipment. Granted, I'm not a philosopher and am unqualified to interpret Lewis's philosophy in depth. I read the essay quickly, and I haven't reflected very long on it. But clearly there is something worth considering here.

The point I want to make is that this site, so-called "Audio Science Review," proposes a philosophy: that superior knowledge, and progress, derive from a certain outlook and set of SCIENTIFIC! processes. In my opinion, it's an empty philosophy. That's not to say there isn't an inherent problem with audio subjectivism as it's currently practiced. But, rather, that the alternative offered here gets us no closer to understanding what makes some audio equipment "better" than others.

LOL, it's my sincere intention that people should be torqued by what I've just written. As I said, I laugh and laugh when people's heads explode. But I hope and expect but that no one will reply. I don't have time and energy to lie in my bed all day arguing and playing at being a philosophy major. It's important to know when you're out of your depth, and that knowledge alone is useful. It applies equally to philosophy and to audio technology.
 

BlackTalon

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Science should be 'empty philosophy' -- they are at opposite ends of the spectrum. And to me Philosophy is 'empty science'.

It doesn't take a scientist or philosopher to know the mere existence of mankind has a negative impact on the planet. And as long as the population keeps growing, so will the impact.
 
D

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Science is philosophy. We get into trouble when we lose sight of that fact. And Lewis's argument is a little (a lot) more nuanced than that. I actually disagree with his conclusion, but the argument is quite good, as far as it goes.

Edit: I realize "science is philosophy" is a meaningless statement, and debatable. Saying they are "at the opposite ends of the spectrum" is also meaningless without further qualification, and it's a sticky debate I don't have the background to tackle. I do believe science is tightly intertwined with philosophy, but I'm not sure which comes first, if at all, and I think there are strong arguments on either side.

One thing I'm pretty confident of is that this website is not "science."
 
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_thelaughingman

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One thing I'm pretty confident of is that this website is not "science."
I don't think this website panders to philosophical musings of subjectivists that believe in psychoacoustic fallacies. What this website does do well is explain the science behind the technology and audio to the best ability.
 
D

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Maybe in some corners of this website there are actual scientific explanations of audio technology. Mostly, I see empirical observations, which are tools of science but not at all the same as science itself, and much talk about properties of gear that everyone admits are imperceptible, but still seems to think are important (why?). I also see a whole lot of negativity toward the most obvious question of all, "How does it sound?" I cannot conceive of a useful audio review site that eschews listening for differences. If the differences do not exist, there is no point for new designs, nor reviews of same.

I also bet 90% of the members here couldn't accurately define "science" if you asked them.

I admit, this site irks me and I'm in a contrary mood today. I ask myself if I'm out of line injecting a little skepticism into the forum and conclude I'm within my rights. If I were a douchebag, I'd try to get myself banned, but I'm tired of conflict.

My suggestions: Rename the site "Audio Performance Review." Add a whole lot more content related to audio circuits, how circuit design choices affect performance, and whether or not any of this is actually relevant to the end user. Also, a lot more thoughtful discussion of why we even bother creating new electronics when the designers themselves admit the problem was completely solved a long time ago, for all practical purposes.

What it comes down to, in my mind, is the self-evident fact that we cannot listen to distortion graphs. To paraphrase Harry Pearson, "The purpose of hi-fi is to accurately reproduce the sound of live music, played in a real physical space." Subjectivism may have failed to achieve its grand ambitions, but I think it helped a lot at the time. This is a far more compelling objective to me than, "The purpose of hi-fi is to accurately reproduce electrical waveforms, as measured by an audio analyzer." The latter, while defensible, is so narrow as to be nearly useless in practice. We seem to be reverting to 1970s style spec wars.
 

Firefly00

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Maybe in some corners of this website there are actual scientific explanations of audio technology. Mostly, I see empirical observations, which are tools of science but not at all the same as science itself, and much talk about properties of gear that everyone admits are imperceptible, but still seems to think are important (why?). I also see a whole lot of negativity toward the most obvious question of all, "How does it sound?" I cannot conceive of a useful audio review site that eschews listening for differences. If the differences do not exist, there is no point for new designs, nor reviews of same.

I also bet 90% of the members here couldn't accurately define "science" if you asked them.

I admit, this site irks me and I'm in a contrary mood today. I ask myself if I'm out of line injecting a little skepticism into the forum and conclude I'm within my rights. If I were a douchebag, I'd try to get myself banned, but I'm tired of conflict.

My suggestions: Rename the site "Audio Performance Review." Add a whole lot more content related to audio circuits, how circuit design choices affect performance, and whether or not any of this is actually relevant to the end user. Also, a lot more thoughtful discussion of why we even bother creating new electronics when the designers themselves admit the problem was completely solved a long time ago, for all practical purposes.

What it comes down to, in my mind, is the self-evident fact that we cannot listen to distortion graphs. To paraphrase Harry Pearson, "The purpose of hi-fi is to accurately reproduce the sound of live music, played in a real physical space." Subjectivism may have failed to achieve its grand ambitions, but I think it helped a lot at the time. This is a far more compelling objective to me than, "The purpose of hi-fi is to accurately reproduce electrical waveforms, as measured by an audio analyzer." The latter, while defensible, is so narrow as to be nearly useless in practice. We seem to be reverting to 1970s style spec wars.
From my experience, most members here are fully aware that there’s not a chance you’ll hear a difference between -119 and -121db SINAD, and that really it’s about features and customer service in choosing gear.

I believe there is nothing inherently wrong with subjectivism, however it’s obviously not just about the sound for subjectivists, it’s also about the luxury aspect of the gear, the high price, and the aesthetics. I think that if a $1000 USB cable makes you happier with your system, who cares. The goal should be to enjoy music.

However, you see subjectivists start claiming that a D30 Pro sounds “too clinical” or ”less musical” than some R2R DAC, when that performance difference is completely inaudible. a blind test would easily tell you that the difference is not in the sound, it’s in the aesthetics and luxury feel of the R2R.
 
D

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However, you see subjectivists start claiming that a D30 Pro sounds “too clinical” or ”less musical” than some R2R DAC, when that performance difference is completely inaudible. a blind test would easily tell you that the difference is not in the sound, it’s in the aesthetics and luxury feel of the R2R.
I guess I'm just having a hard time, when I really think about it, seeing the difference between "SINAD" and snake oil. Both are things, that when added to an amplifier, are purported to make it "better" somehow, though nobody can prove it has any effect on sound quality.

Ah, but you say, "SINAD" can be measured; snake oil cannot. I agree, but they're both worthless, provided the amplifier is basically working as it should. It's not the proof that matters, but the fallacy that it's important somehow.

This is important to me because, since I design and build my own amplifiers, I need to understand what I'm trying to accomplish, and how to determine when I succeed.

This is why I read philosophy sometimes, because philosophers really scrutinize the justification for the things we think we believe.
 

Noendgamehere

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From my experience, most members here are fully aware that there’s not a chance you’ll hear a difference between -119 and -121db SINAD, and that really it’s about features and customer service in choosing gear.

I believe there is nothing inherently wrong with subjectivism, however it’s obviously not just about the sound for subjectivists, it’s also about the luxury aspect of the gear, the high price, and the aesthetics. I think that if a $1000 USB cable makes you happier with your system, who cares. The goal should be to enjoy music.

However, you see subjectivists start claiming that a D30 Pro sounds “too clinical” or ”less musical” than some R2R DAC, when that performance difference is completely inaudible. a blind test would easily tell you that the difference is not in the sound, it’s in the aesthetics and luxury feel of the R2R.
This is a hard topic for me to weigh in on with a scientific or engineering perspective. I can’t tell you why something sounds different regardless of the SINAD numbers. But, I can say that I can tell the difference between how my system sounds with different pieces in the chain. From my headphones to the amp or DAC I put in the chain. I used to own a THX 789, the amp de jour for quite some time. I hated the way it sounded in my system. I recognized how clean it sounded, I recognized that distortion was extremely low , I had no issues with its aesthetics. But, I found it to be lifeless. It didn’t have a soul in my opinion. I also recognize it isn’t supposed to. I have also owned a Gilmore Lite which is also considered to be a “wire with gain” type of amp. I have also owned a Wells Audio Milo which definitely imparts its own sonic signature and didn’t like it. I found it to be overly warm. I have owned 2 Mjolnir amps. Both beautifully built with specific build philosophies. One I loved, the other I didn’t. I never measure my gear or look at the spec sheet. If I am interested in the product, I try it. If I like the its synergy with my chain and headphones, awesome. If not, I move on. I will also change around my headphones to match my amps from time to time. My DAC is currently the Pontus II R2R and I absolutely love it. I owned a TEAC UD-505 right before it and a Vinshine R2R Ref right before that. They each made a difference in my chain, all three great but very different. I listen to a lot of music that has odd time signatures and so how my system is able to handle the rhythm and pacing of my music is the #1 thing I look for. Almost all amps and DACs these days measure past what I can hear in terms of noise. But, they all sound different. Even the ones that are meant to impart nothing by way of sound coloration. I don’t mind a bit of distortion, I am not looking for the greatest measured device. I buy to a certain budget and then do my best to ascertain whether or not it makes my music sound as close to what it should sound like at the venue. I mostly listen to live music. Being that I don’t utilize a 2-Channel system, I also recognize that the headphone has the greatest impact on what I am hearing. So the synergy between my headphone and chain is something I pay really close attention to. I continue to tweak, and try. I continue to learn as I listen. As long as I am listening to music, I am basically happy. Ears are similar to our palates. The more you use them the more fine tuned they become. And some times the sum of the parts don’t add up. With food, I always try to use the best ingredients I can find. I can taste the difference between 2 different choice cuts of meat. I can taste the difference between a piece of salmon wild caught from the Bering Sea and a piece farm raised in New Zealand. I feel my listening skills have improved to the point where I can hear how the implementation of the parts harmonize within a circuit. There is an art to designing and implementing and choosing the right parts to use for that design and implementation. The designer is looking to create something and it is up to me how I experience it to determine whether or not I agree with their piece of art. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. But the journey is the prize, so YMMV. I will keep listening and keep trying and continue to hone my listening skills. As long as it is fun, I am happy with the process.
 
D

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This is a hard topic for me to weigh in on with a scientific or engineering perspective. I can’t tell you why something sounds different regardless of the SINAD numbers. But, I can say that I can tell the difference between how my system sounds with different pieces in the chain.
Nice. You've drawn a line in the sand and staked out a position that cuts right across the grain here. You won't get much traction, but it's good that you care enough to try.

I was approached yesterday by someone on another forum who read about my recent HPA projects and sensed that I had the potential to become a "good" audio designer. He is personally acquainted with the designer of an award-winning amplifier from a very prominent high-end company. And he encouraged me to reach out to this person, but cautioned that I would need to supplicate myself and demonstrate my worth if I were to expect a reply.

I don't know what to think about that. I tread my own path and don't supplicate myself to anyone. But the possibility of achieving something beyond the ordinary is tantalizing, if only we could be sure it exists at all. The danger of following this path is that is might descend into madness.

I believe the pursuit of "sound quality" is an inquiry into the meaning of beauty. Again, without claiming to be a philosopher, I know this is a deep and thorny problem, and not one you can tackle with simplistic thinking. It's easier just to declare, "The job of the amplifier is to be transparent, and the audio analyzer tells everything we need to know, period." My intuition says there's more to it, but I don't have the means to prove it.

My HPA2 amplifier sounds great to me. I designed it from technical principles and haven't tweaked or "voiced" it al all. If we believe that results follow from intention, then you would probably find it to be neutral and transparent, but lacking in that special je ne sais quoi. That would be a success to my way of thinking, because it means I got what I set out to achieve. I don't know if I have what it takes, or if I even want to try, to get to the mythical next level.

I don't expect to win any converts here. You're maybe a little more out on the fringe than I am, relative to this community, but I sense like-mindedness in your postings. Folks here may not like what you have to say, but it's good to remind people now and then that alternative viewpoints are okay. Pushing the boundaries helps blow away the mental cob webs.
 

Noendgamehere

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I hope I am not so far out on the fringe that meaningful conversations become null and void. This hobby is about music. I don’t buy stuff for any other reason other than to enjoy my music to the utmost.

Whether or not I win favor is less important to me than having the conversation.
 
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