Minidsp flex vs wiim pro

[Pioter]

hi as far as i know wiim have now parametric equaliser.
Can I use wiim pro and plug it into tv with equaliser then? My understanding is that I can do that.
Assuming my understanding is correct I should have more less the same results with wiim for less money (eq).

My only concern is that I may want to integrate subwoofer in future (currently 2.0 set up).
Is it a substantial difference between digital subwoofer integration (minidsp flex) and just using built in hpf/lpf in subwoofers?
Instead of buying flex i could just buy subwoofer with hps/lps and expect similar results?

 

[staticV3]

Can I use wiim pro and plug it into tv with equaliser then? My understanding is that I can do that.

Yes.

Assuming my understanding is correct I should have more less the same results with wiim for less money (eq).

The Flex has far more capable DSP and the ability to run Dirac.
However, if you would've used just four PEQ filters anyway, then there's no difference between Flex and WiiM in this aspect.

Is it a substantial difference between digital subwoofer integration (minidsp flex) and just using built in hpf/lpf in subwoofers?

The Flex allows for better sub integration if you're willing to put in the work, or the money (Dirac).

With the WiiM, you'd really want to have a sub with both LPF and HPFed pass-through for the mains. Not many subs have that.

 

[Pioter]

With the WiiM, you'd really want to have a sub with both LPF and HPFed pass-through for the mains. Not many subs have that.

Hi many thanks would for example Yamaha HS 8S do the job?
Then I just put left and right jack->xlr cable like tv->wiim->sub->speakers ?

 

[staticV3]

Hi many thanks would for example Yamaha HS 8S do the job?

The HS8S has a built in crossover (LPF+HPF), however, it's just not a good subwoofer:

 

[NTK]

The HS8S has a built in crossover (LPF+HPF), however, it's just not a good subwoofer:

The Kali WS-6.2 does have a fixed 80 Hz high pass cross-over

 

[terryforsythe]

With the WiiM, you'd really want to have a sub with both LPF and HPFed pass-through for the mains. Not many subs have that.

Not only those features, but adjustable time delay. Getting a smooth crossover between the speakers and subwoofer is an uphill battle without being able to adjust the time delay.

I battled that for years with my setup. It wasn't until I got a MiniDSP SHD last year that I finally got good bass response out of my system. It took experimenting with different crossover slopes and frequencies, and adjusting the time delay each time to get the speakers and subwoofer in-phase, to get what I consider to be good bass.

Is it a substantial difference between digital subwoofer integration (minidsp flex) and just using built in hpf/lpf in subwoofers?

Yes. If you want to add a subwoofer, my recommendation is to spring for the MiniDSP.

Instead of buying flex i could just buy subwoofer with hps/lps and expect similar results?

No!!! The MiniDSP offers way, way more parameters you will need if you want to get optimal integration of the subwoofer with the speakers, including:

1. User specified crossover frequencies that can be independently selected for each channel.
2. A large number of different user selectable crossover topologies and slopes, which also can be independently selected for each channel.
3. User specified time delay for each channel - this is extremely beneficial.
4. Dirac Live as an option, which can EQ the system for your room, seating position, etc.

After upgrading my system by replacing my old preamp with the MiniDSP SHD, and hearing the results, I never again will use a subwoofer without a MiniDSP or something else providing at least the same level of DSP control. Previously, I was using the subwoofer to provide the crossover. I was not able to get the speakers and subwoofer in phase, nor get a level frequency response in the crossover region. The bass response was muddy and unnatural sounding. The bass response of my system now, after tuning with the MiniDSP, is significantly better than it was - much tighter, clean and natural sounding.

As a side note, in my system I got the best bass response by plugging the ports of my bookshelf speakers. I used some dense foam.

 

[poxymoron]

Not only those features, but adjustable time delay. Getting a smooth crossover between the speakers and subwoofer is an uphill battle without being able to adjust the time delay.

I battled that for years with my setup. It wasn't until I got a MiniDSP SHD last year that I finally got good bass response out of my system. It took experimenting with different crossover slopes and frequencies, and adjusting the time delay each time to get the speakers and subwoofer in-phase, to get what I consider to be good bass.

Yes. If you want to add a subwoofer, my recommendation is to spring for the MiniDSP.

No!!! The MiniDSP offers way, way more parameters you will need if you want to get optimal integration of the subwoofer with the speakers, including:

1. User specified crossover frequencies that can be independently selected for each channel.
2. A large number of different user selectable crossover topologies and slopes, which also can be independently selected for each channel.
3. User specified time delay for each channel - this is extremely beneficial.
4. Dirac Live as an option, which can EQ the system for your room, seating position, etc.

After upgrading my system by replacing my old preamp with the MiniDSP SHD, and hearing the results, I never again will use a subwoofer without a MiniDSP or something else providing at least the same level of DSP control. Previously, I was using the subwoofer to provide the crossover. I was not able to get the speakers and subwoofer in phase, nor get a level frequency response in the crossover region. The bass response was muddy and unnatural sounding. The bass response of my system now, after tuning with the MiniDSP, is significantly better than it was - much tighter, clean and natural sounding.

As a side note, in my system I got the best bass response by plugging the ports of my bookshelf speakers. I used some dense foam.

What he said. Minidsp with Dirac Live is a game changer. Bit of work involved to get the best out of it, but it's fun and worth it. Without Dirac and using REW only can still yield excellent results.

 

[Pioter]

Bit disappointing given that flex is quite expensive in my country . With all that said, would it make sense to buy wiim pro and later on (once I got sub) flex ? Given that flex have no streaming itself?

 

[terryforsythe]

Bit disappointing given that flex is quite expensive in my country . With all that said, would it make sense to buy wiim pro and later on (once I got sub) flex ? Given that flex have no streaming itself?

Yes. I think that makes perfect sense.

The miniDSP Flex does have Bluetooth streaming, but my understanding is that WiFi is superior to Bluetooth for audio streaming due to WiFi having much greater bandwidth.

Here is a link to a discussion of Bluetooth vs. WiFi for audio streaming:

https://uk.jbl.com/blog/listening-music-via-wifi-or-bluetooth.html

 

[terryforsythe]

Bit disappointing given that flex is quite expensive in my country . With all that said, would it make sense to buy wiim pro and later on (once I got sub) flex ? Given that flex have no streaming itself?

If you will be using a WiiM Pro for streaming, when you do get a subwoofer, a less expensive option than the Flex is the miniDSP 2x4 HD - $225. It can be ordered with or without a microphone, and upgraded to Dirac Live later on if you want (you will need the microphone for that).

The Flex is superior to the 2x4 HD, and personally I would choose with the Flex when a subwoofer is added to the system, but maybe evaluate the cost/performance for your situation. Here are Links to Amir's reviews for these units:

Review and Measurements and miniDSP 2x4 HD DSP and DAC

This is a brief review and measurements of miniDSP 2x4 HD Processor and USB DAC. I purchased this online and seems like the price as of this writing is USD $207 as of this writing. This is a USB DAC with Toslink optical input and analog/digital in, four channel digital signal processor (DSP)...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Minidsp Flex Review (Audio DSP)

This is a review and detailed measurement of the Minidsp Flex audio signal processor. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $475 for unbalanced and $550 for balanced that I tested. Flex borrows the interface from SHD and puts it in a compact package. Seeing how I really liked that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[poxymoron]

I use USB to Flex from laptop, or LDAC Bluetooth from phone to Flex, when I'm working at home, depending on whether I can spare a USB port on my laptop or not. I have a 2.1 system with Dirac Live on my Flex, nearfield on my desk. Sounds great and if I'm honest, I cannot tell the difference between the USB and the LDAC Bluetooth. Their may be measurable differences but my ears/brain cannot hear it. I'd always default to USB though, to make sure I'm not missing something.

 

[Pioter]

If you will be using a WiiM Pro for streaming, when you do get a subwoofer, a less expensive option than the Flex is the miniDSP 2x4 HD - $225. It can be ordered with or without a microphone, and upgraded to Dirac Live later on if you want (you will need the microphone for that).

The Flex is superior to the 2x4 HD, and personally I would choose with the Flex when a subwoofer is added to the system, but maybe evaluate the cost/performance for your situation. Here are Links to Amir's reviews for these units:

Review and Measurements and miniDSP 2x4 HD DSP and DAC

This is a brief review and measurements of miniDSP 2x4 HD Processor and USB DAC. I purchased this online and seems like the price as of this writing is USD $207 as of this writing. This is a USB DAC with Toslink optical input and analog/digital in, four channel digital signal processor (DSP)...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Minidsp Flex Review (Audio DSP)

This is a review and detailed measurement of the Minidsp Flex audio signal processor. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $475 for unbalanced and $550 for balanced that I tested. Flex borrows the interface from SHD and puts it in a compact package. Seeing how I really liked that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Would there be audiable difference between pro and 2x4? Maybe i just go with that?

 

[radix]

What do you use to play your music? Would you have a computer plugged into the Flex or Wiim, or do you need to use network? If you have a computer you play from, you can run DSP software there at the source and not use the Flex.

If you are considering the Flex with DIRAC, you could start out with buying the UMIK measurement mic now and play through whatever setup you already have and measure your room response with REW. That would give you some idea of how much correction you need.

 

[Pioter]

What do you use to play your music? Would you have a computer plugged into the Flex or Wiim, or do you need to use network? If you have a computer you play from, you can run DSP software there at the source and not use the Flex.

If you are considering the Flex with DIRAC, you could start out with buying the UMIK measurement mic now and play through whatever setup you already have and measure your room response with REW. That would give you some idea of how much correction you need.

It is mainly music, currently the source is cheap iPhone dongle and the system is 2.0. What i want is streamer+dac to tv.
What i would do in case of No plans for sub is simply wiim pro. But given that i need the sub for better sq i struggle with choice. Flex is too expensive…

 

[staticV3]

It is mainly music, currently the source is cheap iPhone dongle and the system is 2.0. What i want is streamer+dac to tv.
What i would do in case of No plans for sub is simply wiim pro. But given that i need the sub for better sq i struggle with choice. Flex is too expensive…

Some subs have built-in crossovers with an LPF for the sub and an HPF for the sub's Line out, for example the original SVS SB-1000/PB-1000.

That simplifies things as you can just do WiiM Pro->Sub->Mains.
The WiiM handles room correction and the sub handles crossover duties.

If your sub doesn't have that feature, I'd do WiiM Amp in case of passive Mains and WiiM Mini+2x4 HD in case of active Mains.

Or wait for the upcoming WiiM Ultra, which might include Line out for both the sub and your Mains.

 

[Pioter]

Some subs have built-in crossovers with an LPF for the sub and an HPF for the sub's Line out, for example the original SVS SB-1000/PB-1000.

That simplifies things as you can just do WiiM Pro->Sub->Mains.
The WiiM handles room correction and the sub handles crossover duties.

If your sub doesn't have that feature, I'd do WiiM Amp in case of passive Mains and WiiM Mini+2x4 HD in case of active Mains.

Or wait for the upcoming WiiM Ultra, which might include Line out for both the sub and your Mains.

Thanks. Well the subwoofer sounds appealing yet the fellows above in this topic says that flex is a must. Can you form an opinion on that? Or if I rephrase the question - would you rather with the same budget buy dsp or go with wiim and spend remaining (dsp) money on (better) sub?

Is flex vs 2x4 hd big difference in terms of sq?

 

[terryforsythe]

Would there be audiable difference between pro and 2x4? Maybe i just go with that?

There might be, for example if the rest of your components are very transparent. Here is Amir's conclusion in the review of the 2x4 HD:

"Conclusions
As a core audio platform, the miniDSP 2x4HD has OK performance. It has no glaring faults but also doesn't match the best-in-class products either. Seeing how this functionality is part of the larger DSP platform and that component can add noise of its own, this is to be expected. Personally I wish there was a plus version that had better execution on DAC side.

As it is, you would be compromising some performance to gain the benefits of its equalization. That technology if well implement, can make significant improvements to sound reproduction in your room so in balance you will come out way ahead."

 

[radix]

Is flex vs 2x4 hd big difference in terms of sq?

What are your speakers and amp?

As @terryforsythe says, if everything else is very high quality, then the difference between the flex and 2x4 HD might be noticeable.

I use a 2x4HD with DIRAC with a McIntosh C30 preamp (0.007% THD) and MC2205 (0.1% THD, 200wpc) amp and JBL L100 (reissue) speakers. I use it with an FM tuner and turntable, and a Wiim Pro streamer. I think the sound improved by adding the 2x4 HD. The old (1970s/80s) McIntosh gear has decent specs, but it's not stellar by today's standards. Not that I hear any noise from it at all.