Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

[Bob from Florida]

Possibly - but more to the point, I don't think it would be likely an audio store is going to be willing to set up a properly controlled blind test.

They rarely know how to set up anything that sounds good. Loud, perhaps.

 

[Frgirard]

According to Toole, it's the other way around. In his book he says (Ch 20.2, first edition), "listeners have a remarkable ability to "listen through" rooms and to be able to extract key information about sound sources".

key informations in a room where the decay in bass frequency destroys the bass reproduction.

for me the bass reproduction is a major key information.

 

[Benton1234]

Then you discover ASR and it would appear you are no longer happy with gear you were happy with for 2 years.

I'm still happy with it though, it was bought under false pretenses was my point. Also if you read the rest of that statement, I mention that I'm done spending on equipment, cables, etc expecting a "better" outcome. I do understand that the Chord brand is also a "bragging" right but I never saw it that way or cared at all. I have the same disdain for that when it comes to cars and computers as unfortunately I'm into all 3 of these expensive hobbies. I always enjoy what I have because I like it, not because someone else might be envious.

My point with that was that I've finally found a logical answer instead of having to tell people I bought something because the R2R DAC in my Hugo is somehow "magical".

I still enjoy the hobby obviously but I no longer have that "what if?" in the back of my head about certain high or low end equipment or that I have to literally listen to it to know what it might sound like and that measurements "don't tell the whole story". There were so many people I had talked to and they were all convinced that their source gear made a difference sonically.

I really wanted a Hugo TT2 at the time but, I couldn't even remotely fathom spending $4K to $6K on a tabletop headphone source set up.

I'm thankful for the information here as I haven't heard of quite a few products that are recommended for AVRs, desktop DAC/Amps, and portable gear. If I do want to get something different I can focus on features instead of supposed sonic differences as you mentioned in the rest of your post.

 

[Bob from Florida]

I'm still happy with it though, it was bought under false pretenses was my point. Also if you read the rest of that statement, I mention that I'm done spending on equipment, cables, etc expecting a "better" outcome. I do understand that the Chord brand is also a "bragging" right but I never saw it that way or cared at all. I have the same disdain for that when it comes to cars and computers as unfortunately I'm into all 3 of these expensive hobbies. I always enjoy what I have because I like it, not because someone else might be envious.

My point with that was that I've finally found a logical answer instead of having to tell people I bought something because the R2R DAC in my Hugo is somehow "magical".

I still enjoy the hobby obviously but I no longer have that "what if?" in the back of my head about certain high or low end equipment or that I have to literally listen to it to know what it might sound like and that measurements "don't tell the whole story". There were so many people I had talked to and they were all convinced that their source gear made a difference sonically.

I really wanted a Hugo TT2 at the time but, I couldn't even remotely fathom spending $4K to $6K on a tabletop headphone source set up.

I'm thankful for the information here as I haven't heard of quite a few products that are recommended for AVRs, desktop DAC/Amps, and portable gear. If I do want to get something different I can focus on features instead of supposed sonic differences as you mentioned in the rest of your post.

Cool! My first take was you were going down another "rabbit hole". Features are good and I forgot to mention "reliability".

 

[sajgre]

There is a very simple "test" for all subjectionists... Remove all the tweeks that you made during your upgrade journey, lower cables to the ground, even replace them with the cheap ones you first bought, remove that weight on top of the CD player, take computer power cord and put it in system, remove 'AC cleaner' box... And listen... Since you removed at least 18 things that made big improvement in bass and removed so many weils, what you hear now should be garbage. But is it really? Reeeeaaaallly??

Before Asr I bought a few high end things that should be magical but fortunately I'm confident enough that when I heard no difference between my and magical stuff, I returned it. I just wasn't sure if my ears suck or if there is actually no difference between good dacs. Well now I know. And I'm extremely grateful for this forum.

 

[Bob from Florida]

One thing I really dislike about modern loudspeakers is more than one set of binding posts on the back. Like that is really needed. Then a set of ”shaped” gold plated metal of some type is provided to connect the sections together in case you are not bi-wiring. I don’t typically like the functionality of the “shaped“ metal jumpers - sometimes causes issues with connections - and will put some either homemade or after market jumpers on the bind posts. Let’s be clear here - jumpers should make no difference in sound quality, unless they are too small a gauge or not making a good connection. An example of “too small a gauge” would be Omega Mikro ribbon jumpers from Mapleshade. This stuff is so thin you can tear it while tightening the binding post. Link to these jumpers that are only $303 for a 6 inch set of 4.

Jumpers Cables

A friend gave me a set of these jumpers from Paul’s Anti-Cables. Compared to the Omega Mikro jumpers they are rugged and impossible to break while installing plus have sufficient wire gauge to never attenuate your signal at only $95. Do they make any sound quality difference? I sincerely doubt it, but they were free to me and look nice.

Jumper Wires for Hi-Fi Audio Systems

Just $32 for a set of 4! Available with Banana BFA style Z-Plugs, Copper Spades for Barrier Strip Screw Terminals, or un-terminated bare wire.

anticables.com

 

[birdog1960]

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You bought the cables and the little bridge thingies for them to sit upon and the benefits were magical. You bought the $1000 IEMs that only truly sang after 250 hours of burn-in. Not 200 hours...or 225 hours, but 250 hours! It must be that for the magic to appear! You converted your entire music library to super high res and enjoyed the blissful new details that never were revealed by the awful, cludgy mess that was 16/44 cd. Never have your ears been assaulted by the likes of bluetooth audio or lossy mp3! You searched endlessly for the perfect dac...the dac that truly brought the magic! You bought one after another, each more expensive than the last, searching for the one, true dac that sounded better than all the rest...

And then you arrived here...and posted about your dac discovery, and were told that a dac shouldn't sound like anything at all! Suddenly your audio reality came crashing down around you. How can this be? Why shouldn't a dac sound great?? Why would expensive dacs even exist if they all sound the same??? Wounded, you lash out angrily! It's idiocy! It's retarded! These people have dead ears! It hurts. We understand. It's been a long time and you've spent a lot of money, all for naught. But once the pain diminishes and you've had time to deal with your emotions just give it some thought. Do some reading here and once your ban is lifted, maybe ask a few questions. Instead of locking your eyes shut against the bright light of objectivity...just open them up a little. Just a squint! Let a bit of that light in and bask in a warm, tubey glow that actually means something! Perhaps, as with many of us, a weight will begin to lift off your shoulders. Perhaps there is freedom in this new reality! You might discover that there is a different way...a way that wields real magic. A way that actually answers questions and reveals truth while at the same time leaving your wallet fat and happy! Welcome my friend. Welcome to ASR where the truth shall set you free!

Just wondering…what instruments do u play? Snobbery is to protect something false. I know many musicians that have better ears than I. Does that mean they have a monopoly on what sounds good? I like some $10 wines that my master of wine brother in law doesn’t. So what?

 

[Killingbeans]

I know many musicians that have better ears than I. Does that mean they have a monopoly on what sounds good? I like some $10 wines that my master of wine brother in law doesn’t. So what?

I don't think @Sgt. Ear Ache is trying to make any points about preference. It's more about differences in sound that were never there to begin with.

 

[Stopeter44]

I don't think @Sgt. Ear Ache is trying to make any points about preference. It's more about differences in sound that were never there to begin with.

Time for me to jump in. My first post here. The @Sgt. Ear Ache original post had me smiling to myself, I'm an audiophool with 50+ years on the clock. I came here recently looking for guidance about a DAC choice. The E50 will be here soon, it's destined for a TV based system, but I expect it will sound as good to me as the ADI-2 Dac in my system, right now.

I've spent way too much money on audiophile stuff, and I can see that on other fora, people still do.

The system I am putting together is based around the E50 and Yamaha HS7 active speakers, it might have a dedicated CD player and music from a computer, too.

Thanks for reading.

 

[composer]

This is a rather convincing argument

 

[fpitas]

This is a rather convincing argument

Sheesh. Sounds like old cassette tapes I had

 

[antcollinet]

This is a rather convincing argument

I'm assuming that is parody - but poes law applies and it is difficult to tell.

 

[fpitas]

I'm assuming that is parody - but poes law applies and it is difficult to tell.

I'm hoping it's parody.

 

[Stopeter44]

Looks like an urban legend to me.

 

[Entropy]

I'm assuming that is parody - but poes law applies and it is difficult to tell.

Y'know man, bit rot... it's a killer. The scourge of audiophiles and streaming companies alike. That's the real reason why analog mastertapes exist!

/s

 

[The Audiophool]

Ok, Ok

I'm new here and reflecting on my pain. So, so hard to get back to actual music after listening to all that sound.

I'm reluctantly going to delay my purchase of these beauties until you guys give them the ASR thumbs up, I'm sure they'd send in a reel for testing.:

Nordost Odin 2 Speaker Cable - Factory Terminated Pair

Nordost's Odin 2 range is the 'Supreme Reference' for top-of-the-range audiophile equipment. Each component of the Odin 2 range is meticulously crafted to ensure the most performance out of your system. The Odin 2 Speaker cable is designed to ensure the purest audio signal transfer to your...

www.futureshop.co.uk

If I do get them, I'll pop back and ask for some ideas on what to connect them to.

 

[fpitas]

Ok, Ok

I'm new here and reflecting on my pain. So, so hard to get back to actual music after listening to all that sound.

I'm reluctantly going to delay my purchase of these beauties until you guys give them the ASR thumbs up, I'm sure they'd send in a reel for testing.:

Nordost Odin 2 Speaker Cable - Factory Terminated Pair

Nordost's Odin 2 range is the 'Supreme Reference' for top-of-the-range audiophile equipment. Each component of the Odin 2 range is meticulously crafted to ensure the most performance out of your system. The Odin 2 Speaker cable is designed to ensure the purest audio signal transfer to your...

www.futureshop.co.uk

If I do get them, I'll pop back and ask for some ideas on what to connect them to.

Very funny

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Ha …you think the audio world is tough , try the gourmet food and wine world where there is no science to back you up and all you really want is a meatloaf sandwich on rye.

 

[ahofer]

I've been working on a copypasta response for these situations:

Welcome newcomers to ASR. It's possible you've made an unsupported assertion or a scientifically implausible claim that will cause most people in this science-oriented forum to react with skepticism (or scepticism if they are in the U.K.). Please don't take the reactions as overtly hostile - most of us are just frustrated with the many newcomers who have clearly come here just to "troll". Please do engage with the membership to find an objective, controlled method to support or discard your hypothesis. Our membership includes recovering subjectivists, many engineers/scientists, and several famous figures in the world of audio engineering research. Generally, they can cite scientific, controlled research to support their views. Most believe in the fallibility of human sighted judgement, and think blind testing and measurements are critical ingredients for assessing equipment contributions to sound quality. We'd love to have you, but if all you want is a) to fight or b) to have others cheerlead for your subjective views or anecdotal evidence, I'd suggest you will be happier elsewhere.

 

[The Audiophool]

Thanks for the welcome,

Perhaps my observations were not well made. I asserted nothing - unsupported or otherwise, and made no claims of any kind - scientifically implausible or otherwise. My post simply reflected personal experience - from believing that I would hear better things the more I spent through to understanding that my budget, my hearing and, yes, the science behind sound reproduction can inform much better choices. That is precisely what I thought this thread was all about. I may have misunderstood,

But for sure, part of that journey for me included obsessing over the minutae of specific sounds to the detriment of my true desire - supremely well-rendered music reproduction in it's entirety. Maybe purely psychological, but that's a science too. And I do have to say that speaker cable (wire) at £37000/metre is quite funny. So is the idea that they'd let you lot test it. That cut and paste was a non sequitur. Enjoy the remains of the weekend.