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Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

pkane

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I walk between audiophile and studio work. Not big deal. I trust my ear. Years of listening and tweaking. I'm only not alone.

You don't trust your ears if you're not willing to test equipment without knowing ahead of time which component is playing. Years of listening and others agreeing with you? That's why you're still on the hamster wheel, I'm afraid. Take the first step.
 

sergeauckland

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Even Paul McGowan of PS Audio (infamy) doesn't think that impedance matching is a thing anymore. Like so many audiophile myths, it comes from the days of vacuum tubes and output transformers where it made a difference. Most modern equipment has near 0 output impedance and near-infinite input impedance (thank you opamps!). I think there is also some trickle-down from concepts that are important in the RF world but have absolutely no implications in the audio band.
There's a historical perspective to impedance matching, and it does apply to audio, going back long enough. In the early days of analogue telephony, voice calls were routed as baseband audio signals over open wires hundred of metres, even tens of kilometres long. To avoid reflections which would make speech unintelligible, the sending amplifier had to be impedance matched to the transmission wires, which had to be matched to the receiving amplifier, and 600 ohms was the impedance of the open-wires. This was later applied to broadcasting, where again the cabling from the studios to the transmitters was done with equalised land-lines where the sending and receiving impedance had to be matched to that of the line. Within a studio, it may not have been necessary, but as cables could be of any length, even inside one building could have hundreds of metres, the practice was continued, especially as equipment was often located in racks a long way from the actual studios.

In more modern times, where studios were more self-contained, there was much less need for impedance matching, and bridging became the norm, where the sending impedance is low, and the receiving impedance is high.

Once HiFi got going domestically, there was never the need for impedance matching, and even the earliest home audio equipment had low(ish) sending impedance into a high receiving impedance. With tube preamps, if they didn't have cathode follower outputs, then the sending impedance was typically around 10Kohms, but receiving would be around 1Mohm, so as long as the cable was short, say 1-2 metres, the HF response would still be adequate. The better preamps had cathode follower outputs which could have output impedances of a few hundred ohms, still much higher than today's, but still low enough for quite long cables.

S.
 

kongwee

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You don't trust your ears if you're not willing to test equipment without knowing ahead of time which component is playing. Years of listening and others agreeing with you? That's why you're still on the hamster wheel, I'm afraid. Take the first step.
I don't change my component regularly. All of time just wait for thing to be broken. I take time to read, listen and wait. For you will highly change your gear base on measurement. You don't trust your ear. You trust your eye and brain more. Changing yourself to suit the graphs. Of course, lots of people backing you too.Mentally like other audiophile you look down on.
 
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pkane

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I don't change my component regularly. I take read, listen and wait. For you will highly change your gear base on measurement. You don't trust your ear. You trust your eye and brain more. Changing yourself to suit the graphs. Of course, lots of people backing you too.Mentally like other audiophile you look down on.
I use my ears, not measurements to decide on equipment. Measurements are what I use as the first approximation to pick well-designed, quality equipment that I may or may not like. I've picked the equipment that worked perfectly well for me about 25 years ago, and have had no need to replace it. Been enjoying it nearly every day.

I've done many dozens of blind tests, including with speakers. First few were really hard to stomach -- they proved that what I thought I was hearing was totally wrong. Take the first step, and start trusting your ears, not your eyes. Until you do, you're stuck on the hamster wheel, whether you realize it or not.
 

rdenney

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I don't change my component regularly. All of time just wait for thing to be broken. I take time to read, listen and wait. For you will highly change your gear base on measurement. You don't trust your ear. You trust your eye and brain more. Changing yourself to suit the graphs. Of course, lots of people backing you too.Mentally like other audiophile you look down on.

If your aren’t willing to control your listening tests, your claim that you trust your ears alone is self-delusion.

Rick “only controlled testing removes the influence of eyes and brain” Denney
 

Pdxwayne

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I use my ears, not measurements to decide on equipment. Measurements are what I use as the first approximation to pick well-designed, quality equipment that I may or may not like. I've picked the equipment that worked perfectly well for me about 25 years ago, and have had no need to replace it. Been enjoying it nearly every day.

I've done many dozens of blind tests, including with speakers. First few were really hard to stomach -- they proved that what I thought I was hearing was totally wrong. Take the first step, and start trusting your ears, not your eyes. Until you do, you're stuck on the hamster wheel, whether you realize it or not.
Curious...After all the blind tests, do you trust your initial instinct when hearing a difference between equipment? Or do you still mostly doubt your instinct?
 

antcollinet

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It is not so simple to buy all component in flat FR, noise and distortion below audibility and end up high fidelity system. Very likely end up an inaccurate system. Individual they may be accurate, but adding into chain of component they will behave oddly, impedance matching between these component will be a challenge. Listen to more setup, go for shows, audition in shops. You will know it is not that simple.
Impedance matching issues are only be an issue between amp and speakers.

Digital sources to dacs - no impedance matching issues.
Line sources to line inputs - both outputs and inputs will be purely resistive - no matching issues.

And even with the amp/speaker interface - well measuring amps with low output impedance will have minimal dependency with most well behaved/easy to drive speakers.
 

pkane

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Curious...After all the blind tests, do you trust your initial instinct when hearing a difference between equipment? Or do you still mostly doubt your instinct?
In most cases, I still run a blind test if I want to be sure. Initial instinct is almost always wrong.
 

Pdxwayne

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In most cases, I still run a blind test if I want to be sure. Initial instinct is almost always wrong.
I see. Thanks for letting me know.

Curious, how often your instincts were later proven right via blind tests? ~10%?
 

kongwee

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If your aren’t willing to control your listening tests, your claim that you trust your ears alone is self-delusion.

Rick “only controlled testing removes the influence of eyes and brain” Denney
If your aren’t willing to control your listening tests, your claim that you trust your ears alone is self-delusion.

Rick “only controlled testing removes the influence of eyes and brain” Denney
In most cases, I still run a blind test if I want to be sure. Initial instinct is almost always wrong.
For me, I am not anxious about the gears at all, then are more meaning time than doing ABX. Listen to concert, playing instrument. It is good way to break from hi-fi. My money can spend on something else. So beside going for hi-fi show, my ear also trim for real instrument. Whatever the best ASR system setup still can't reproduce the actual feel of a real instrument. You put everything best in world, you can only go this far. This is the truth. Hi-fi is just an other music propagation system. I can enjoy Apple earpod, 300B, KT88, EL48, 1.8mHz amp, Tall speaker like Wilson Audio. Or just small JBL bluetooth speaker. I even listen music from my iMac and having my system off.

You think you can setup an accurate system from ASR or graphs well go ahead. Feeling an edge over people who own Wilson Audio/ KEF/MBL.....etc No problem for me. Beating my own system. You are welcome.
 

pkane

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For me, I am not anxious about the gears at all, then are more meaning time than doing ABX. Listen to concert, playing instrument. It is good way to break from hi-fi. My money can spend on something else. So beside going for hi-fi show, my ear also trim for real instrument. Whatever the best ASR system setup still can't reproduce the actual feel of a real instrument. You put everything best in world, you can only go this far. This is the truth. Hi-fi is just an other music propagation system. I can enjoy Apple earpod, 300B, KT88, EL48, 1.8mHz amp, Tall speaker like Wilson Audio. Or just small JBL bluetooth speaker. I even listen music from my iMac and having my system off.

You think you can setup an accurate system from ASR or graphs well go ahead. Feeling an edge over people who own Wilson Audio/ KEF/MBL.....etc No problem for me. Beating my own system. You are welcome.

You can lead a horse to the water, but you can’t make him drink. Keep on going in circles. I feel no edge, just sadness.
 

Newman

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For me, I am not anxious about the gears at all, then are more meaning time than doing ABX. Listen to concert, playing instrument. It is good way to break from hi-fi. My money can spend on something else. So beside going for hi-fi show, my ear also trim for real instrument. Whatever the best ASR system setup still can't reproduce the actual feel of a real instrument. You put everything best in world, you can only go this far. This is the truth. Hi-fi is just an other music propagation system. I can enjoy Apple earpod, 300B, KT88, EL48, 1.8mHz amp, Tall speaker like Wilson Audio. Or just small JBL bluetooth speaker. I even listen music from my iMac and having my system off.

You think you can setup an accurate system from ASR or graphs well go ahead. Feeling an edge over people who own Wilson Audio/ KEF/MBL.....etc No problem for me. Beating my own system. You are welcome.

A few posts ago, krabapple wrote to you, "Your posts are word salads of technical jargon and questionable opinions asserted as plain fact."

Nothing has changed, I see.
 

kongwee

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You can lead a horse to the water, but you can’t make him drink. Keep on going in circles. I feel no edge, just sadness.
The horse need to eat or sleep, why have to keep drinking water?
 
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