Measurement Microphones - what is the consensus?

[Philbo King]

I'd like to take REW measurements of my LCR and sub with and without Audyssey. The Behringer 8000 seems like the cheapest way but I will need some sort of USB connector, Can someone point me to the dongle that I need?

The ECM8000 requires an XLR input with 48V phantom power and possibly some gain. The UMIK is USB.

 

[OCA]

Does anyone know a measurement mic that comes with a calibration file which includes phase correction as well as SPL correction? Dayton UMM-6 has phase correction but no calibration file for 90 degrees vertical use. I am ok with both USB and XLR interface.

 

[fpitas]

Does anyone know a measurement mic that comes with a calibration file which includes phase correction as well as SPL correction? Dayton UMM-6 has phase correction but no calibration file for 90 degrees vertical use. I am ok with both USB and XLR interface.

Do you have some reason to suspect phase does not follow directly from the FR?

 

[Multicore]

Cross·Spectrum - Calibrated MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphones for Sale

Purchase calibrated MiniDSP UMIK-1 measurement microphones, low-cost option for performing precise and accurate sound measurements

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[OCA]

Do you have some reason to suspect phase does not follow directly from the FR?

This is a test of a $400 mic I found on the web. I know my Umik-2 has similar but worse phase shifts below 100Hz and above 2kHz.

 

[fpitas]

View attachment 288532
This is a test of a $400 mic I found on the web. I know my Umik-2 has similar but worse phase shifts below 100Hz and above 2kHz.

I believe that, but in most situations, phase is directly relatable to the FR.

 

[OCA]

Creating the minimum phase version of the actual calibration file and using it instead would improve things a bit but I'd rather have the actual tested result.

Btw, I just found out that Dayton UMM-6 comes with a cal file with both SPL and phase correction but they don't have 90 deg cal files.

 

[fpitas]

Creating the minimum phase version of the actual calibration file and using it instead would improve things a bit but I'd rather have the actual tested result.

Btw, I just found out that Dayton UMM-6 comes with a cal file with both SPL and phase correction but they don't have 90 deg cal files.

No, they don't for some reason. When I asked, they told me to make my own using the 0 degree file and the measured delta from 90 degrees. I'm just using it at 0 degrees.

 

[OCA]

No, they don't for some reason. When I asked, they told me to make my own using the 0 degree file and the measured delta from 90 degrees. I'm just using it at 0 degrees.

Well, one would be very lucky to keep the capsule at the same position while rotating it 90 degrees and rely on the HF responses.

 

[thecheapseats]

...There is no such thing as an XLR to USB adapter....

hey @Blumlein 88 - I would have agreed with you until recently - when by chance I found this 'thing'...
I have no idea if it would be fit for the purpose or application discussed above (quality? maybe?)...

MVX2U - Digital Audio Interface - Shure USA

XLR to USB Adapter with DSP and Headphone Monitoring for All XLR Microphones

www.shure.com

I suggested this 'thing' (it was inexpensive) to a non-audio friend a few years ago who asked how to use a dynamic mic he had (old sm58? or 57?) on some pc app which I can't remember the name of now (it worked for him - he was happy)... have no idea about its quality or what it might sound like... a few times I almost tossed one into an online shopping cart just to have on hand...

 

[Curvature]

Buy an Earthworks microphone. Skip the puzzles and issues by spending a bit more.

 

[Keith_W]

Buy an Earthworks microphone. Skip the puzzles and issues by spending a bit more.

I have an Earthworks M30 and two Behringer ECM8000's. The advantages of the Earthworks are:

- all of them come with a calibration file. With the Behringer you have to pay a bit more to get the calibrated option.
- looking at the calibration file, Earthworks is +/- 1dB here and there. Behringer is +/- 2dB. This suggests that the Earthworks was manufactured to finer tolerances.
- Earthworks goes up to 30,000Hz, Behringer up to 22,000Hz.
- Earthworks is more sensitive, on my mic preamp it needs about 10dB less gain.
- Earthworks is machined stainless steel, Behringer is cast and anodized Aluminum (I think?).
- I believe the warranty is longer on the Earthworks, but I honestly can't remember. All my mics are now out of warranty anyway.

So the big question - does the Earthworks actually give me better and more accurate measurements? I don't think so. If you have the calibrated Behringer, you can live with all its comparative "deficits" - e.g. you don't need to measure >22kHz, you can turn up the mic preamp, and you don't need a luxurious beautiful mic. There might be a difference if you are recording live performances. I don't, my mics are purely for measurement.

I wouldn't buy the Earthworks again, the Behringer does a good enough job - provided you buy the calibrated option!

 

[Blumlein 88]

hey @Blumlein 88 - I would have agreed with you until recently - when by chance I found this 'thing'...
I have no idea if it would be fit for the purpose or application discussed above (quality? maybe?)...

MVX2U - Digital Audio Interface - Shure USA

XLR to USB Adapter with DSP and Headphone Monitoring for All XLR Microphones

www.shure.com

I suggested this 'thing' (it was inexpensive) to a non-audio friend a few years ago who asked how to use a dynamic mic he had (old sm58? or 57?) on some pc app which I can't remember the name of now (it worked for him - he was happy)... have no idea about its quality or what it might sound like... a few times I almost tossed one into an online shopping cart just to have on hand...

I had not seen this, but looks like it might be handy. Apparently it was around prior to 2011 as it was updated with more gain in 2011. Specs are not great, but for many purposes just fine considering the cost and convenience. The thing some might not like it is only 16 bit (48 khz) though in practice that probably isn't too much of an issue. The Umik measuring microphones are also only 16 bit.

Service

 

[Blumlein 88]

I have an Earthworks M30 and two Behringer ECM8000's. The advantages of the Earthworks are:

- all of them come with a calibration file. With the Behringer you have to pay a bit more to get the calibrated option.
- looking at the calibration file, Earthworks is +/- 1dB here and there. Behringer is +/- 2dB. This suggests that the Earthworks was manufactured to finer tolerances.
- Earthworks goes up to 30,000Hz, Behringer up to 22,000Hz.
- Earthworks is more sensitive, on my mic preamp it needs about 10dB less gain.
- Earthworks is machined stainless steel, Behringer is cast and anodized Aluminum (I think?).
- I believe the warranty is longer on the Earthworks, but I honestly can't remember. All my mics are now out of warranty anyway.

So the big question - does the Earthworks actually give me better and more accurate measurements? I don't think so. If you have the calibrated Behringer, you can live with all its comparative "deficits" - e.g. you don't need to measure >22kHz, you can turn up the mic preamp, and you don't need a luxurious beautiful mic. There might be a difference if you are recording live performances. I don't, my mics are purely for measurement.

I wouldn't buy the Earthworks again, the Behringer does a good enough job - provided you buy the calibrated option!

Yes, this how I see it. I have one Earthworks microphone for recording and it is very nice. With a calibrated mic like a Umik or some of the other similar microphones especially over USB the EW does not get you much in practical terms for most non-professional use. If I was rich, sure I'd go with an EW or something like that. For using with REW for setting up speakers etc. the calibrated inexpensive mikes are a bargain, and highly useful.

 

[OCA]

I have an Earthworks M30 and two Behringer ECM8000's. The advantages of the Earthworks are:

- all of them come with a calibration file. With the Behringer you have to pay a bit more to get the calibrated option.
- looking at the calibration file, Earthworks is +/- 1dB here and there. Behringer is +/- 2dB. This suggests that the Earthworks was manufactured to finer tolerances.
- Earthworks goes up to 30,000Hz, Behringer up to 22,000Hz.
- Earthworks is more sensitive, on my mic preamp it needs about 10dB less gain.
- Earthworks is machined stainless steel, Behringer is cast and anodized Aluminum (I think?).
- I believe the warranty is longer on the Earthworks, but I honestly can't remember. All my mics are now out of warranty anyway.

So the big question - does the Earthworks actually give me better and more accurate measurements? I don't think so. If you have the calibrated Behringer, you can live with all its comparative "deficits" - e.g. you don't need to measure >22kHz, you can turn up the mic preamp, and you don't need a luxurious beautiful mic. There might be a difference if you are recording live performances. I don't, my mics are purely for measurement.

I wouldn't buy the Earthworks again, the Behringer does a good enough job - provided you buy the calibrated option!

What audio interface are you using? Can you share correct REW and hook up settings for loopback (soundcard calibration and as timing reference)? It seemed a bit complicated to me after a USB mic.

 

[Keith_W]

What audio interface are you using? Can you share correct REW and hook up settings for loopback (soundcard calibration and as timing reference)? It seemed a bit complicated to me after a USB mic.

I have 3 interfaces: Focusrite 2i2, Presonus Audiobox USB, and RME Fireface UC.

To make a loopback recording for soundcard calibration with REW, simply plug the XLR output into the mic input making sure that 48V phantom power is off. The instructions for doing so are in REW itself, they go into far more detail than in this brief post

 

[OCA]

I have 3 interfaces: Focusrite 2i2, Presonus Audiobox USB, and RME Fireface UC.

To make a loopback recording for soundcard calibration with REW, simply plug the XLR output into the mic input making sure that 48V phantom power is off. The instructions for doing so are in REW itself, they go into far more detail than in this brief post

Thanks, I will check REW Help. I couldn't find much info on this setup so far and I was always leaving the phantom power on so far!

 

[SIY]

Test mikes are the one place where I'll splurge a bit. At a minimum, I'd want something like an Earthworks or iSemcon. Not terribly expensive but not cheap. It's not just the performance/calibration, it's reliability, stability, and if necessary, traceability. You can get good results with the cheaper mikes for sure, but I have more confidence in the day to day and measurement to measurement performance of the phantom powered lab-grade mikes.

Most of my testing for publication uses PCB Piezotronics phantom power condensers, but they are a significant step up in cost. Superb mikes, though, the peer of things like DPA or GRAS.

 

[Thomas_A]

The Line Audio Omni1 is enough, IMO.

Line Audio Design - Made in Sweden

Line Audio Design

www.lineaudio.se

 

[OCA]

A DIY channel I trust recently claimed that all measurement mics need recalibration every 5 years. What do you guys think?